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Started by ethanjude at 07-22-2008 3:10 PM. Topic has 114 replies.
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   07-22-2008, 3:10 PM
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Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***

It's become a very common occurance in this forum for threads to pop up telling the gamerparents one of the following:

-  Tell your kids to stop swearing/singing/being obnoxious on LIVE!

-  It's rated "M" and anyone under 17 is not allowed to play it!

and several other variants of that.  Let me reply to both of that in hopes of stemming the tide of these threads.

 

As parents and gamers, this community is actively involved in our children's gaming habits.  We face the same obnoxious, foul mouthed kids that you do (and, no, not all kids are that way) and we are doing what we can to help change that.

We do not let our children behave that way.  That would be hypocritical.  We hate it as much as anyone.

If you want to make a difference, here are a few ways to do so.

-  Engage local parents and their communities for a talk on games and the truth of the behavior of online play.  Start with schools, PTA groups, or churches.

-  Write a letter to parenting magazines that warns them of the dangers.

-  Write an article online about it.

-  Contact the ESRB asking them to do more rating awareness campaigns.  Link.  I've contacted them several times about this and they are always kind in their replies about their current efforts.

Which moves me to the second point. 

The ESRB rating system is not a law.  It is, in their words:

 ESRB wrote:

The Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) ratings are designed to provide consumers, especially parents, with concise, impartial guidance about the age-appropriateness and content of computer and video games so that they can make informed purchase decisions about the games they deem suitable for their children and families.

And this from their "Game Ratings and Descriptor Guide"

 ESRB wrote:
  

 ESRB ratings have two equal parts: rating symbols suggest age appropriateness for the game and content descriptors indicate elements in a game that may have triggered a particular rating and/or may be of interest or concern.

It is a choice for parents to make as to what their children play, however there is an extreme disconnect between most parents and this ESRB system.  They make mention "so they can make informed purchase decisions about the games they deem suitable".  The choice belongs to the parent.  Only law is that it cannot be sold to someone under the age appropriate limit.

I do want to add that we agree with you.

Poor behavior online by "children" (and for that matter, anyone) is horrible.

Parents need to be educated better about game ratings and online interaction, but not this group of parents.

If you need to vent, that's fine.  I get that.  Many times after an abusive night of Live play I vent on these forums, just don't accuse this group.  I think we are working more towards the solution than most groups out there.  Thanks for reading, and happy posting.


 


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   07-22-2008, 4:44 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
Great job ethan!  I hope this either gets stickied or posters read this first before posting rant threads.
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   07-22-2008, 5:53 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
Nicely put!!
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   07-22-2008, 8:59 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
Party!!! [<:o)]well said!!!Beer [B]

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   07-22-2008, 9:04 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
Thank you, about time someone said this.
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   07-22-2008, 10:40 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
Wonderfully eloquent and to the point!

**Please sticky this!!**

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   07-23-2008, 2:33 AM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***

Do some research before you rant. In many states it is becoming enforeced law or has been passed as law to be enforced as such that the state(s) require retailers to obey the ESRB when selling to consumers. For instance, Louisiana is one such state that if a retailer fails to enforce the ESRB ratings they will be severely fined. The law is enforced.

The purpose of the parent forums is for us to share information. However, since non-parent and kids get on this forum, some of these threads are necessary.

As a husband, father of two and a Youth Pastor I am glad that such an forum exists. I personally would ask that people think about what's being said before you go off on them accusing them of "blasting off". In other words, give yourself a check-up from the neck-up before you speak-up.

 

Sincerely, Pastor Oldtimer001


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   07-23-2008, 2:17 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
 Oldtimer001 wrote:

Do some research before you rant. In many states it is becoming enforeced law or has been passed as law to be enforced as such that the state(s) require retailers to obey the ESRB when selling to consumers. For instance, Louisiana is one such state that if a retailer fails to enforce the ESRB ratings they will be severely fined. The law is enforced.

The purpose of the parent forums is for us to share information. However, since non-parent and kids get on this forum, some of these threads are necessary.

As a husband, father of two and a Youth Pastor I am glad that such an forum exists. I personally would ask that people think about what's being said before you go off on them accusing them of "blasting off". In other words, give yourself a check-up from the neck-up before you speak-up.

 

Sincerely, Pastor Oldtimer001

 I think you missed the point Oldtimer. IMO Ethan is saying dont come on the forums blasting gamerparents because we understand and love gaming. I agree the purpose of forums is to share info but we dont need a different post everyday saying the same dam thing.

In other words, Check yourself before you wreck yourself!!Beer [B]

 

your friend MO MOSS



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   07-23-2008, 2:52 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***

It's well known that selling to the wrong people can lead to fines for the retailer.  To be clear, in case it was on my end, that portion is unfortunately an easy work around.  As anyone who has been in retail game sales can attest there way too many parents who are willing to buy their 12 year old GTA because the kids down the street have it.

While they cannot sell to the under 17 person, they can sell to the parent who stands their with the 12 year old and immediately hands it to their child in plain view of the sales associate and there is nothing that can be enforced at that point.

For facts go to a site like What they play.  Most forums are as filled with opinions as they are facts.

In the case of most of the threads that come up, they are not constructive in any way.  Some of the threads that have been around have been things like "Teach your kids some respect!" or "Tell your kid to shut up", etc. etc.  There is no solution there, nor information about whether a game is appropriate for a child or not.  It's simply that someone had a bad experience on Live the night before with some kids and this is the only place they feel that they can vent.  Well, most of the regulars are tired of getting dumped on as though we are part of the problem.  We are trying to be a part of the solution, and have been doing our part to make Live a better place from our "good game" motto to our anti-hate speech blogs and petitions.

I don't blame anyone for wanting to get that off their chest, and if someone came in a did a thread titled "Why don't some parents get it?" or something that did not use language that directly implicated us no one would have a problem.  That's my point and I hope I said it better this time.


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   07-23-2008, 2:56 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***

For brevity, I didn't include this in the opening post, but will do so now.

 ESRB wrote:

As the game industry’s self-regulatory body, ESRB is responsible for the enforcement of its rating system. Every publisher of a game rated by the ESRB is legally bound, by contract, to disclose all pertinent content, in both written and audio-visual form, during the rating process, including content that may not be playable but will exist in the code on the final game disc (i.e. "locked out"). After a game is released, ESRB testers review both a random sample of games well as a number of hand-selected titles to verify that all pertinent content was fully disclosed. In the event of incomplete disclosure during the rating process which affected or could have affected the assignment of a rating or content descriptor, an ESRB enforcement action may be initiated, which could result in revocation of the original rating and the imposition of sanctions, including monetary fines. Corrective actions may also be required of the publisher to ensure that all game packaging and advertising materials are accurately labeled. Examples of corrective actions include the re-labeling of product inventory and unsold product at retail or, potentially, a product recall. Where warranted in order to ensure compliance with its directives, ESRB can suspend rating services altogether.


 


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   07-23-2008, 5:55 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***

All of you are missing the point here. I have not been blasting any parents. Again, this is for those non-parents and kids that are on these forums. You guys keep blasting me because you think I'm blasting you. Please stop. I may only have just started posting on these forums a couple of days ago, but I've been reading them for a long time now. AGAIN, MY POSTINGS HAVE BEEN TOWARDS THE NON-PARENTS AND KIDS WHO ARE POSTING THREADS IN THE PARENT FORUMS. UNDERSTAND THAT PLEASE. None of my postings were anything personal to parents. Also, all of my previous postings, except this subject, were replying to people'S questions comments. If you guys are parents, great. AS I said before it is awesome that you care about your kids and what they're interacting with. I'm saying is you're not a parent, you shouldn't be on this forum.


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   07-23-2008, 5:58 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***

Sorry if it seemed that way, OT.  My default position was that you were simply adding to our argument.  I'm not sure if you have had trouble on other forums, but this is the first time I've seen you post so no worries at all.Yes [Y]


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   07-23-2008, 6:02 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***

Cool! Like I said, I'm not blasting parents. Just non-parents and kids who shouldn't be on these forums.


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   07-23-2008, 6:06 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
Really, no trouble at all. Like I said, I've been reading for a long time. I just decided to start doing some postings recently.
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   07-23-2008, 6:59 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
 Oldtimer001 wrote:

All of you are missing the point here. I have not been blasting any parents. Again, this is for those non-parents and kids that are on these forums. You guys keep blasting me because you think I'm blasting you. Please stop. I may only have just started posting on these forums a couple of days ago, but I've been reading them for a long time now. AGAIN, MY POSTINGS HAVE BEEN TOWARDS THE NON-PARENTS AND KIDS WHO ARE POSTING THREADS IN THE PARENT FORUMS. UNDERSTAND THAT PLEASE. None of my postings were anything personal to parents. Also, all of my previous postings, except this subject, were replying to people'S questions comments. If you guys are parents, great. AS I said before it is awesome that you care about your kids and what they're interacting with. I'm saying is you're not a parent, you shouldn't be on this forum.

Unless i read your post wrong im not missing the point at all.

"Do some research before you rant" said OLDTIMER

 

 

"I personally would ask that people think about what's being said before you go off on them accusing them of "blasting off". said OLDTIMER

Ethan was not blasting but informing people, since i have met Ethan  he always does  his research and is always looking to make the community better.  Im not mad at you nor do i take it personal but i found your post off base.



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   07-24-2008, 3:00 AM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
 Oldtimer001 wrote:

Cool! Like I said, I'm not blasting parents. Just non-parents and kids who shouldn't be on these forums.

I didn't see a warning saying: Must have at least one child before participating in these forums. I'm a kid but I was just interested in what parents were saying. Just because I'm not a parent doesn't mean I can't post in any of these threads.
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   07-24-2008, 3:06 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
Well there's nothing that can keep anyone from posting in any threads on the XBL Forums but this is what the description says for the section:

 "A forum for Dads and Moms to discuss gaming, parenting, and more."

So to me that pretty much says you need to have at least one kid to be a Mom or a Dad.

These forums are for us parents to discuss how we're using gaming as part of lifestyle in raising our children.  There's nothing we can do to deter kids who's parents care less about what games they are playing or how they conduct themselves.  Once my kids are old enough to play games on live (right now they're 3 + 5) you can definately bet they won't be playing in a room by themselves, it will be out in the family room where what they are saying/viewing can be monitored etc.

No one's telling you that you can't post here
geauxN2tigervil but if it doesn't have anything to do with parenting or family issue you're having related to gaming then it shouldn't be posted on this forum.
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   07-24-2008, 10:05 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***

geauxN2tigervil

I didn't see a warning saying: Must have at least one child before participating in these forums. I'm a kid but I was just interested in what parents were saying. Just because I'm not a parent doesn't mean I can't post in any of these threads.

 

That's really great that you're enterested in what parents think. How's about what your parents think? After all they are the one's who's opinions you should be caring about. What I meant was that this is a forum for us parents to swap ideas, sound off on discussions relevant to us as parents and being parents that are gamers. That's why you shouldn't post here. After all you have plenty of other areas where you can post. We were kids once. We know, just trust me.

Sincerely, Pastor Oldtimer001


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   07-24-2008, 10:06 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
Well said oo K A 0 S oo . We're not saying you can't, just to honor what the forum is for.
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   07-24-2008, 10:11 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***

To MO MOSS, me and Ethan straightened everything out on these postings. If you misundserstand what I'm posting, I'm sorry. If my postings seem to be blasting you, Ethan or any other envolved parent, I'm sorry. As I said before I'm glad to see parents envolved with gaming and there kids.

Sincerely, Pastor Oldtimer001


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   07-25-2008, 3:59 AM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
I guess I misinterpreted OT's words. I read the "non-parents and kids who shouldn't be on these forums" part and got a little angry. I noticed the description after I posted but the title of this section does include family gaming. I just figured I was a part of the family.
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   07-25-2008, 4:02 AM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
 Oldtimer001 wrote:

geauxN2tigervil

I didn't see a warning saying: Must have at least one child before participating in these forums. I'm a kid but I was just interested in what parents were saying. Just because I'm not a parent doesn't mean I can't post in any of these threads.

 

That's really great that you're enterested in what parents think. How's about what your parents think? After all they are the one's who's opinions you should be caring about. What I meant was that this is a forum for us parents to swap ideas, sound off on discussions relevant to us as parents and being parents that are gamers. That's why you shouldn't post here. After all you have plenty of other areas where you can post. We were kids once. We know, just trust me.

Sincerely, Pastor Oldtimer001

Then again maybe I didn't misinterpret his words, he was telling me I shouldn't post here! Part of the title reads "family gaming".
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   07-25-2008, 4:39 AM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
I think some people are confused about the laws with regards to the ESRB.

The ESRB is a "recommendation" for parents, not law.
Some states have laws that require retailers to sell games based on the ESRB recommendations. 

As far as I know, there are no laws IN THE US stating that parents have to follow the ESRB guidelines.

Every child is different and is ready for different games at different ages.  ESRB is good advice but it can't replace a good parent.

That being said, if there is a law that states that a child can NOT play a game until a certain age then please point it out.

- Catka
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   07-25-2008, 2:42 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***

 geauxN2tigervil wrote:
I guess I misinterpreted OT's words. I read the "non-parents and kids who shouldn't be on these forums" part and got a little angry. I noticed the description after I posted but the title of this section does include family gaming. I just figured I was a part of the family.

 

Its all good, like i said im not mad at all. I hope you have a great weekend!Big Smile [:D]Beer [B]



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   07-25-2008, 6:45 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
 MO MOSS wrote:

 geauxN2tigervil wrote:
I guess I misinterpreted OT's words. I read the "non-parents and kids who shouldn't be on these forums" part and got a little angry. I noticed the description after I posted but the title of this section does include family gaming. I just figured I was a part of the family.

 

Its all good, like i said im not mad at all. I hope you have a great weekend!Big Smile [:D]Beer [B]

Did you quote the wrong person? Because I'm rather confused...
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   07-25-2008, 6:51 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
 geauxN2tigervil wrote:
 MO MOSS wrote:

 geauxN2tigervil wrote:
I guess I misinterpreted OT's words. I read the "non-parents and kids who shouldn't be on these forums" part and got a little angry. I noticed the description after I posted but the title of this section does include family gaming. I just figured I was a part of the family.

 

Its all good, like i said im not mad at all. I hope you have a great weekend!Big Smile [:D]Beer [B]

Did you quote the wrong person? Because I'm rather confused...

yes sorry that was for OLDTimer,,

Sorry  man!!! lol same gamerpic lol

 



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   07-25-2008, 7:13 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***

 Catka wrote:
I think some people are confused about the laws with regards to the ESRB.

The ESRB is a "recommendation" for parents, not law.
Some states have laws that require retailers to sell games based on the ESRB recommendations. 

As far as I know, there are no laws IN THE US stating that parents have to follow the ESRB guidelines.

Every child is different and is ready for different games at different ages.  ESRB is good advice but it can't replace a good parent.

That being said, if there is a law that states that a child can NOT play a game until a certain age then please point it out.

 

the ESRB was initially set up and controled by the state governments.  the supreme court determined it to be unconstitutional for the gov to be that involved in Freedman v. Maryland 380 U.S. 51 (1965).  they couldn't ban but they could approve.

even if there isn't an actual law created specifically for the purpose to ban the sales to anyone under the age of the rating, it may still be possible to recieve a fine by some means.  for example through common law and court cases that have occured dealing with similar issues.  i don't have time to do the research right now but i'm willing to bet that's the case.

 

As far as I know, there are no laws IN THE US stating that parents have to follow the ESRB guidelines.
  you are correct because that would require a specific law like the alcohol laws stating that minors can't drink, buy or carry it...etc.  parents can't buy alcohol for them but there is no restrictions for them to buy an R rated movie for them.   but like i said above, it might be possible to fine an underaged person for doing the physical buying through other laws. 


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   07-25-2008, 7:42 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***

ah, yes, sorry for the double post.  i decided it was friday and i'm tired of researching copyrights.  so...

 

i've found that in the US it seems some states have tried to create laws.  the most recent being the govenator in california.  several states have tried but the supreme court keeps knocking them down saying the law is agianst the first amendment.  but that's still not to say that some smaller courts might have done just the opposite and it just hasn't made it to the supreme court yet.  so it still might be possible for a local gov to give a fine for it, especially if nobody has fought the fine in court yet.

 

in the UK it is illegal by the video recordings act of 1984.


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   07-25-2008, 8:07 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***
Way to quote the law Form, that must've taken awhile to research.
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   07-25-2008, 9:37 PM
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Re: Before Posting a "parents and your kids" thread ***please read***

 geauxN2tigervil wrote:
Way to quote the law Form, that must've taken awhile to research.

 

not really when you know where to look, but thanks Smile [:)]


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