Search:
My Xbox

OXM - The Magazine

Started by DanAmrich at 02-26-2009 1:53 AM. Topic has 77 replies.
Sort Posts:    
Print Search
Page 1 of 3 (78 items)
1 2 3 >

   02-26-2009, 1:53 AM
Reply Quote
Trusting the reviewers
Splitting off a previous topic:

 MitchyD88 wrote:
Since it came up, can I ask you what you mean by "trust"? So you DON'T trust Fran, Dan, Paul and Corey? That's a lot of relative opinions that you're dismissing as "untrustworthy" and I don't understand what people mean by that.


 Orion Nights wrote:
Trust, as in I have come to know that his opinionis coincide with mine a ot more frequently then anyone elses.  Not that I dont read and value the other reviewers.  I have been reading reviews a long time, not just Games, but Books, Movies.....and find that when you can come to TRUST a reviewers opinion it just saves time and money.

Take Ryans review of Halo Wars, He writes a lot about its flaws in the article, and still rates it as a must buy.  That tells me that I can expect to really enjoy the game, and since I am already aware of the flaws that I can look past them.  If someone else had written the SAME article and given it the SAME score, I would have been very iffy about getting the game on release.

Orion Nights


I may have said this (or something similar) before, but I think this is totally true. You have to build a relationship with a magazine/website and the writers that work for it before you can really find out if they represent you and how much stock you should put in their opinion.
 
I have read Entertainment Weekly for many years now. I know which movie critics' opinions are in line with my own at this point because I have taken a few samples -- movies I've seen and movies they've reviewed -- and saw where we agreed and disagreed. Now when I read, say, one of Lisa Schwartzbaum's reviews, she might dis it with a C, but maybe what bothers her (as stated) will not bother me. I might disagree and see the film anyway and enjoy it. That does not mean she's a bad reviewer or that I don't trust her; it means I do not necessarily share the same points of judgement. But I can weigh what she has to say and factor it in MUCH better if I have read enough of her stuff to understand her voice and opinions.

That's different from "they're wrong because they just are," which I still think is an immature reaction to someone else's subjective criticism. This is more "okay, knowing that they felt that way, how will I proceed?" And you can only do that if you know them to begin with.

This is also why I get so upset when people overreact to a score they read on the internet, when they do not know anything about the publication that issued that score, let alone the individual who awarded that score.

KOXM podcasts | My Twitter feed
   Report 

   02-26-2009, 6:45 AM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
And I think something that the Internet is severely guilty of is backing reviewers who validate their preconceptions, rather than someone with relative tastes. This is why I think that Shawn Elliott's review symposium (in which OXM's Francesca Reyes has some of the most interesting points, I think) is so important. I also think that it's kind of too late. Anyone who's willing to read Shawn's epic posts, in which some serious figures are taking part in, already understands, or at least has an idea, of what a review is supposed to be.

The discussion is simply clarification and new ideas from smart people who have experience. This thing has become like an in-the-works bible for me. And I'm willing to take in to account all of the presented ideas and points and criticisms of ALL of the writers because A) I have a deep investment in their work and B) I'd like to know more about them so that I can compare my own interests to theirs.

I think that people aren't willing to consider WHO is actually reviewing a game, nor what they have to say. It ALWAYS boils down to "This f*cking retard gave it a 6.5?" Only when it's Pisse d someone off does it become a matter of who the "f*cking retard" in question is. And it works both ways. Fanboys are always going to be disgusted with a 2.0 Space Giraffe review, and haters will scoff and mock when Halo gets a 10.

I think that readers need to chill, sit back, and think for themselves. Then they can compare and relate to certain people, and judge how the game might fare in their eyes after they've got it in their hands. When you haven't played anything but the fanboy flute, it's hard to take you seriously, while the reviewer looks like someone who was doing their job. I think to say that you don't trust someone strictly because their opnions didn't match what you want yours to be is ridiculous, and that is something that really, really drives me crazy.

Trusting reviewers isn't a matter of actual trust on the Internet. It's about how they can tell me how rad Killzone 2 is when I am expecting it to be the second coming of Christ.

/late night scatterbrained thoughts.


DownWriteFierce - 31 reviews in 31 days during May!
   Report 

   02-26-2009, 1:22 PM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
Trusting the Reviewers:

When it comes to valuing someones opinion, enough that you are going to commit time and money solely based on their review, I think it is safe to call it TRUST.  Sure other terms might get the point across, I could have gone with VALUE or APPRECIATE their opinion.  But to me it is a trust issue.  TRUST is earned and valued.  It can also be lost.  I think that it is an indication of a higher degree of value and appreciation.  It is one of the reasons I subscribe to OXM, I have come to value ALL of the reviews, but really only TRUST Ryans reviews.

As I stated in my example of the HALO WARS review, Ryan went out of his way to point out several flaws, this let me know that the game isnt perfect and that I should be made aware that there are some features that I might not like, i.e. foreshadowing.  However, he also rated it as a must buy for fans of the GENRE and HALO universe.  Since I am both, I was most likely going to buy the game anyway.  My TRUST in his review though has let me know that I will be able to COMMIT my TIME and MONEY in making this game one of the few release day purchases this year.

I do not undervalue the reviews of the other OXM reviewers, but I have not yet established a relationship of TRUST in their reviews.  Several of them seem to take the job too lightly or review a game through rose colored glasses. I think they tend to be swayed by their own preconcieved idea of the game and judge them accordingly.

Orion Nights


Facebook
   Report 

   02-26-2009, 3:12 PM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
With me game reviews and I have a love hate relationship. I think it's great that there is an industry devoted to playing a game and then producing an opinion of the game. However, I don't like and never have like scores. People get into this mindset that if a game doesn't receive a certain score then they are simply not going to play it. It's a sad thing. Sometime ago EGM tried to do reviews in a way in which a score was not actually given to a game. Instead the reviewer just wrote down his feelings about the game and discussed what he liked or dislike about the game. The was not well received by the readership and that's to bad. I enjoyed that a lot. I think if a system like that was put into place I would have a better chance of trusting a reviewer. As it stands now, I just look at what a particular reviewer gave a game and then base that on how I feel about the game and if I agree with the reviewer on most of the points than I more than likely learn to trust that reviewer.
   Report 

   02-27-2009, 2:12 PM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
You know, Play magazine does not even assign numbers to their reviews anymore.

They just write a bunch of text explaining what the game is about, what its issues are, and leaves it in your hands with what to do : )


|Tweet @Silvercube|
~ Xbox Care Bear ~
   Report 

   02-27-2009, 2:51 PM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
 Silvercube wrote:
They just write a bunch of text explaining what the game is about, what its issues are, and leaves it in your hands with what to do : )


Even more of a reason to develope a relationship of TRUST with the reviewer.  Unless they spellout why they dont like it.  Like the recent review of NFS: Undercover.  Most reviews I read gave it a low score and saif that it was more of the same from the NFS franchise.  Well thats just fine with me, thats what I liked about the game the first time I played it.  Cops and Robbers!! So the reviewers low score didnt matter to me as he gave me the reason for the low score.

Orion Nights


Facebook
   Report 

   02-27-2009, 5:41 PM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
 Plat4rmr wrote:
Sometime ago EGM tried to do reviews in a way in which a score was not actually given to a game. Instead the reviewer just wrote down his feelings about the game and discussed what he liked or dislike about the game. The was not well received by the readership and that's to bad.


You're thinking of Games for Windows Magazine. EGM has always had scores -- the only significant changes they had was dropping from 4 reviewers to 3, and then eventually a mix of 3 and 1, before it was mostly just 1.


DownWriteFierce - 31 reviews in 31 days during May!
   Report 

   03-14-2009, 12:28 AM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
 Silvercube wrote:
You know, Play magazine does not even assign numbers to their reviews anymore.

They just write a bunch of text explaining what the game is about, what its issues are, and leaves it in your hands with what to do : )



You know, we did discuss this. What happens if you ditch scores altogether? We found that most people would be livid. As writers we want to believe that the words we write are the point, and we know we can convey "good," "bad," and all shades in-between just fine without numbers. But the audience has made it very clear, overall, that they want numbers.

KOXM podcasts | My Twitter feed
   Report 

   03-14-2009, 12:41 AM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
Aside from what I think about specific reviewers, I love love love what games radar now does with their game reviews. They have a standard review followed by a "better than..." "worse than..." with comparable games. I love that idea.

When I die, I want to go like grandpa, peacefully while I'm asleep. Not screaming like the other people in his car.

   Report 

   03-16-2009, 12:19 PM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
As I commented in another Thread earlier today, With Pauls comments about the gaming industries nasty habit of boss battles being a mere button pushing combo driven lunacy (my words not his),  I am now more inclined to listen to what he has to say about other reviews, now that I know we share atleast one more pet peave of the gaming industry.

Orion Nights


Facebook
   Report 

   03-23-2009, 2:39 PM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
 Dan OXM wrote:
 Silvercube wrote:
You know, Play magazine does not even assign numbers to their reviews anymore.

They just write a bunch of text explaining what the game is about, what its issues are, and leaves it in your hands with what to do : )



You know, we did discuss this. What happens if you ditch scores altogether? We found that most people would be livid. As writers we want to believe that the words we write are the point, and we know we can convey "good," "bad," and all shades in-between just fine without numbers. But the audience has made it very clear, overall, that they want numbers.
Numbers are a fickle matter: they're good for just the glance, but they never give the true meaning. And the fact that they're in .5 increments also dilutes where they rank to other games. Tbh, I prefered the .1 increments of old, because it represented the review better. Even further, I loved the review for Chaos Theory with it's 9.9, because I agree that NO GAME can be truly perfect.

I'll have more of a response on "trust" later.
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion. -DL
   Report 

   03-31-2009, 5:44 AM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
Didn't someone recently have a matter that had to do with trust in the reviewers (or the lack of)  and when he pointed that one out, he got told that that was the way it was or something similar? I remember a bunch of tension and Dan defending it. So this post seems quite opposite and contrived from what was originally said.... So from month to month it depends on the feeling?

If you solve a fight it's done? Or can you bring it up and apologise later? I'm lost and I only have 3 pages a month to read outside the magazine.

Sorry this is like my gossip rags. I don't need In Touch or People I got OXM. It was exciting for a while though and everyone showed what asses they can be.

Kinda boring lately someone spice it up.
   Report 

   03-31-2009, 10:59 PM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
Your open confession of confusion is irritating since you're trying to make subtly scathing remarks about the subject. Your admission to not being clear on what was said, and then using it as a weight to throw around, seems silly.

Contrarily, I find that OXM is better than ever. The latest features have been unbelievable.


DownWriteFierce - 31 reviews in 31 days during May!
   Report 

   03-31-2009, 11:21 PM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
I'm also confused with your criptic issues. Are you referring to the forums or the magazine? I too have noticed the forums die down a bit lately, but I just chalk it up to typical ebb and flow.
When I die, I want to go like grandpa, peacefully while I'm asleep. Not screaming like the other people in his car.

   Report 

   04-01-2009, 7:46 AM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
Due to Code of Conduct issues (ie not being able to quote locked threads) it makes a sticky situation to try to explain what I mean.


There was a person on these boards that mentioned that too many freelancers were contributing too much to the mag while the Editors sat back idely and enjoyed.

Dan`s response was that there were always and will be always freelancers so forget about it.

NOw that Future has changed policy and forced the editors to do more, they say it was always us and then some, and if you don`t trust us forget about it.

So who do we trust.

The freelancers or OXM.

After all the chief retroligist didn`t even put up a review of the USGC (Ultimate Sega Genesis Collection)

Which was obviously Dan`s review as he advertises it in his sig.

I guess I have to ask where is OXM gaining and what are they loosing.

The Jasper content could have been summed up in 1 sentence ``do you see a .4 or .1`on the serial number.

Did you get a memory cards packed on the outside..... Done.
   Report 

   04-01-2009, 8:10 AM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
I am still really confused. Vauge accusations and guesswork without any knowledge or proof just water off a duck's back around here.

I'm also not a big fan of how you jumped that guy about being a creep for asking if anyone has ever played games with girls on live. Now that to me reads like a victim jumping the innocent for past hurts.
OXM FAQs:
Mag
Disc
   Report 

   04-01-2009, 12:56 PM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
Freelancers are used across the board in many magazines and newspapers. In fact, this new issue has at least one contribution by Mitchy. I still do not understand what his problem was with the freelancers.

I do know that by digging up this topic again and those attacks you made on Redheadguy1979 the other day, I have decided to not take your posts as seriously as I did yesterday.

MyTwitter.
   Report 

   04-01-2009, 4:30 PM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
 Vamp0514 wrote:
Due to Code of Conduct issues (ie not being able to quote locked threads) it makes a sticky situation to try to explain what I mean.


There was a person on these boards that mentioned that too many freelancers were contributing too much to the mag while the Editors sat back idely and enjoyed.



I'm going to take a shot in the dark and guess that you are referring to KageyK. Due to the nature of my past associations with him, I'm not going to post regarding that. But I'm not sure where you are going with the freelancer stuff. Future, like most other employers lately, is affected by the currend economic situation. They needed to trim their budget and tighten there belts which included, unfortunatly, using fewer freelancers.  Obviously it sucks, but it's not the end of the world. I just don't see anyone announcing that they never used freelancers like you seem to, so I'm confused about that. Which freelancers are you specifically referring to?
When I die, I want to go like grandpa, peacefully while I'm asleep. Not screaming like the other people in his car.

   Report 

   04-01-2009, 11:44 PM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
 JugglerOfGeese wrote:
Freelancers are used across the board in many magazines and newspapers. In fact, this new issue has at least one contribution by Mitchy. I still do not understand what his problem was with the freelancers.

I do know that by digging up this topic again and those attacks you made on Redheadguy1979 the other day, I have decided to not take your posts as seriously as I did yesterday.


It does?

Back on track, I'm still lost by the accusations. Dan likes oldass games. Doesn't mean he's obligated to review Sonic's Whatever.


DownWriteFierce - 31 reviews in 31 days during May!
   Report 

   04-02-2009, 1:35 AM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
Lost Planet 2 issue, Credited in the Mass Effect 2 Explained section, on Page 59.

MyTwitter.
   Report 

   04-02-2009, 2:59 AM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
Oh, right. Neat!

An earlier comment about "who do I believe, the editors or the freelancers?" confuses me. You were never asked to trust one or the other. Now that there really aren't any freelancers, um, it's hard to trust 'em, eh?


DownWriteFierce - 31 reviews in 31 days during May!
   Report 

   04-08-2009, 2:08 AM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
 Vamp0514 wrote:
There was a person on these boards that mentioned that too many freelancers were contributing too much to the mag while the Editors sat back idely and enjoyed.

Dan`s response was that there were always and will be always freelancers so forget about it.

NOw that Future has changed policy and forced the editors to do more, they say it was always us and then some, and if you don`t trust us forget about it.

So who do we trust.

The freelancers or OXM.

After all the chief retroligist didn`t even put up a review of the USGC (Ultimate Sega Genesis Collection)

Which was obviously Dan`s review as he advertises it in his sig.

I guess I have to ask where is OXM gaining and what are they loosing.

The Jasper content could have been summed up in 1 sentence ``do you see a .4 or .1`on the serial number.

Did you get a memory cards packed on the outside..... Done.


Okay, a few comments here. First, I'm sorry you didn't like the Jasper story; I thought opening them and getting nerdy, which we do rarely, was a fun change of pace -- like, what can we do that the average 360 owner never would? Open our machines for the sake of seeing inside. Most people liked it, a few people complained loudly. It's not a regular column.

Future "forcing" the editors to do more...that's an interesting way to phrase it, and it suggests that you assumed the editors were somehow not working because the freelancers were doing their jobs. That's not true, and of course, nobody attempted to prove it, nor could they -- all due respect, any external guesses about our internal workflow is going to be just that: a guess. Let me take your Genesis collection example and use it to explain away this "freelancers are second-rate" myth and "the editors are lazy thanks to freelancers" myth in one fell swoop!

I did not review the Genesis collection because I was busy that issue doing several other things, and other people (namely Taylor) had familiarity with the source material, so they were just as qualified to levy that critique. (Taylor just worked on a Namco collection on 360 a few issues ago, so he even had a fresh reference point for 360 retro-repackage collections, and what does and doesn't work with them.) Honestly, I have more experience than anybody else on staff with old coin-op games, so the "retrologist" title that Ryan jokingly gave me really came out of that -- I know and remember (and maintain in my garage) old arcade machines better anyone else here. And while I was a Genesis owner (well, still am), other people on staff were too and my take on it was less crucial; they didn't have to go and research Comix Zone, but they would have had to do that for Discs of Tron. The games that are "more important" to have my take on -- Space Invaders Extreme, for instance -- I nearly always do.

Why "nearly always"? We all have preferences and specialties when we review, but some times it comes down to manpower. I'm the features and departments editor (though lately I've been sharing features duty with Corey, because I've been overwhelmed with getting it all planned on my own.) I screen the mail and write Message Center; I plan out the entire 365 section, including recruiting endpage columnists, researching and interviewing the XNA Underground developers, and setting up the giveaways. Inbox is written by Ryan, but I write a lot of the 365 stuff that has no name attached to it, and I edit all of it.

Also in that April issue (where the Genesis collection review appeared), I was responsible for the eight-page Wolfenstein cover feature, the eight-page Ben Heck feature (which involved three days of travel between the two of them, which means everything else is on hold while I do that, plus the time to transcribe the interviews I conduct on tape -- I don't use freelancers for typing up my notes or transcribing my conversations), the preview of L4D Survival, and reviews of CellFactor, Merv Griffin's Crosswords, Puzzle Quest Galactrix, as well as all the Street Fighter peripherals. I did what we internally call the secondary review on the Genesis collection, which is playing it a little more casually/in multiplayer and then discussing the review and score with the primary writer/reviewer; I had input and was able to use my relevant knowledge, but I wasn't driving the bus on that one. I also did secondaries/multiplayer sessions on Peggle, Trivial Pursuit, and Texas Cheat 'Em that issue. FWIW, I also helped with the gameplay and screens for the Watchmen preview and even got some of the screenshots for the Terminator preview sidebar.

And that's just on my plate. You can imagine what Fran has to do to line up cover opportunities and talk to the top brass and play JRPGs from start to finish besides. Paul and Ryan have their hands full with scheduling and writing reviews and previews respectively. Corey is our traffic cop who analyzes, corrects, and copyedits every single page during shipping, but you'll notice he writes more and more every issue. Everybody on staff has a similar workload to mine.

Managing the magazine is really what we do, and that's why we liked having freelance help when it came to writing. There is no sitting around playing games; there is no pawning our work off on freelancers so we can have mai tais on the beach or any other fantasy life you may have built for us. When we had freelancers, it did save us some time (sadly, the fun stuff -- like, "here, play this game, it's time-intensive") and we used those opportunities to plan even further ahead, or work on story ideas, or things like that. But even when we hired outside help, we still had to find them, assign things to them, edit them, pay them, and all the other mundane elements that go into actually producing the magazine. They still spoke on behalf of the magazine and we always discussed their scores and experiences so that it would match the "voice" of OXM, and would be something we felt comfortable printing and, if need be, defending. They were hired because we trusted them; they were not representing their own interests.

So...I think the suggestions that freelancers were somehow not as good/are untamed forces that do not take their responsibility seriously, or that the editors were slacking and now suddenly have to work for a living is a lot of jealous nonsense. I really like my job -- but even though it's about a leisure activity, it is work, and no amount of insinuation or guessing from less-informed external sources has changed that yet. It's a really insulting insinuation, especially without any experience with or insight into the process you're criticizing.

KOXM podcasts | My Twitter feed
   Report 

   04-08-2009, 2:20 AM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
Oh Snap..Snap!
 Bill wrote:
Pills here!
   Report 

   04-08-2009, 2:24 AM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
Your friends that enjoy what you like in a game,are much better at picking out games that you would play than any reviewer ever could.
Enjoy my site,join if you want!!
http://www.yuwie.com/claymore61
New Gamer Blogs
GoW Layout
   Report 

   04-08-2009, 2:39 AM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
Yep. No denying that. It's impossible for Fran to know how well you will like a game, hence why she shares her thoughts.


DownWriteFierce - 31 reviews in 31 days during May!
   Report 

   04-08-2009, 5:47 AM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
 sHo76uNd3Wd wrote:
Oh Snap..Snap!

My thoughts exactly...
   Report 

   04-08-2009, 12:43 PM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
Reading a review on a MS game in OXM is like reading the book My Favorite President by the Bush twins.
Enjoy my site,join if you want!!
http://www.yuwie.com/claymore61
New Gamer Blogs
GoW Layout
   Report 

   04-08-2009, 6:02 PM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
 Claymore 61 wrote:
Reading a review on a MS game in OXM is like reading the book My Favorite President by the Bush twins.


You fall under the misconception that OXM is owned and operated by Microsoft.

You are also very wrong and don't know that OXM has rated Microsoft games poorly also.

Read more about it in the OXM FAQs and become an informed person so you don't write silly things on message boards.
OXM FAQs:
Mag
Disc
   Report 

   04-08-2009, 6:34 PM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
Silly me....
Enjoy my site,join if you want!!
http://www.yuwie.com/claymore61
New Gamer Blogs
GoW Layout
   Report 

   04-08-2009, 10:14 PM
Reply Quote
Re: Trusting the reviewers
Does no one want to take the responsibility of making their own choice? Granted, there is a trust of sorts, but more of understanding who the reviewer is. Does she prefer gameplay over story? What about how bad glitches ennerve them? All of that is WITHIN WHAT THEY WRITE. Just read it. Numbers, imo, are s***. A right word has more value than the right number.
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion. -DL
   Report 
Page 1 of 3 (78 items)
1 2 3 >

©2009 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved