Note: this thread is a discussion thread at this point, not a "how to find a Jasper console" thread. As soon as details are available on how to locate Jasper consoles, I will create a new thread.


It may be a bit premature but since today is supposedly the day the Jasper boards are rolling out I figure we should start a thread covering any real - VERIFIED - sightings of Jasper boards identified either internally or through power draw.  If we list them by region we can start to get a feel for where they are showing up and how fast the retail channel is clearing out the Falcon units. 

Ben Heck's breakdown of a new 60G unit was cool and more importantly showed that Jasper is not yet in the channel.

As for me... this is important because after my 2nd 360 died of the RROD I am simply NOT going to use my Target gift card on anything but a Jasper.  The GPU has been the problem child since day one so I'm waiting for a GPU that isn't quite so sweaty.

Scott

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Every lie is just another brick you put in your own prison cell.

For anybody who lives under a rock...

The Falcon boards are the latest revision (up to now) of the 360 with a 90nm GPU and a 65nm CPU.  The power draw dropped fairly dramatically when the CPU went from 90nm to 65nm - something like 20 Watts or so.

The Jasper board is the latest revision of the system being manufactured (supposedly today) by MS.  This new revision has the 65nm CPU and GPU's.  This SHOULD continue to erode the RROD problems provided MS did not get cheap and scale back the heatsink arrangements to cut cost.

We should expect a visible drop in power draw when the GPU drops from 90nm to 65nm also.  How much is unknown but considering the heat that GPU put out it had no small portion of the total power draw and so we should easily see a drop of 10 Watts or more - I assume.

Since the new motherboards are functionally identical and physically identical (externally) there is no obvious way for us to tell when the Jasper boxes are out aside from power draw figures and when enough are identified probably lot numbers.


Scott

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Every lie is just another brick you put in your own prison cell.

Hey I just saw one!  Oh wait... false alarm...  it was just Bigfoot. 

Sorry.

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Every lie is just another brick you put in your own prison cell.

 Scott47592 wrote:

It may be a bit premature but since today is supposedly the day the Jasper boards are rolling out

Where did you hear that today is the day? I've looked all over the internet and all I could find was Late August/Early September everywhere.

Here is the article that specifically mentions August 22nd as the manufacture date of the Jasper 360's.

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/digitaljoystick/archives/139165.asp

Still... that is obviously not an official source and even if it's true how long it will take to clear the channel and hit the stores is another question.  Although from what I heard the Falcon board inventory is getting low.

All the 60Gig Pro's I have seen in the stores so far have manufacture dates from June 18 through June 20.  I am down here in the Fort Lauderdale area of South Florida.  Needless to say these are NOT Jasper motherboards.

Well... I'll just keep my eyes open.  It's easy enough to look through the flap and see the manufacture dates.  I would like to look at power draw but that's very difficult to see from the side flap on the box.

Scott

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Every lie is just another brick you put in your own prison cell.

Well, as according to that even. I wouldn't expect to see those until the start of September or so.

Which is just around the corner and the reason I started this thread - though it may get buried in the meantime while we're waiting for Jasper to hit the streets.  Still... with the oncoming price drop and Jasper in the pipeline I will wait until I'm getting the ostensibly better 360 design for less money.

Scott

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Every lie is just another brick you put in your own prison cell.

 Scott47592 wrote:

Which is just around the corner and the reason I started this thread - though it may get buried in the meantime while we're waiting for Jasper to hit the streets.  Still... with the oncoming price drop and Jasper in the pipeline I will wait until I'm getting the ostensibly better 360 design for less money.

Scott

I'm planning the same thing.

Im also waiting for the jasper chips to appear before i buy my 60gb xbox 360. So far i know that 60gb with falcons have the manufacturing date of January 23(2008) - June 2008. With the lot number of 825,826. So maybe jasper 60gb 360 will have a different lot number. (maybe 827)

  If they are in put in you have to add the shipping time, then the retailers distribution warehouse & finally the actual stock of that store.

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If it can be put on backwards, someone will do it

There's the real question... How long for Jasper to make it from the production line to store shelves.

Considering that the 60Gb Pro's I am seeing in stores (Best Buy) are showing dates of June 18-20 it could be as much as a couple months before we see Jasper on the shelves.  Hopefully not... but all this has to happen first...

- Production of Jasper chips (supposedly already in full swing)
- Production of Jasper Boards added to MS's motherboard inventory before final assembly
- Depletion of Falcon motherboards in MS inventory
- Production of 360's with Jasper motherboards
- Depletion of completed Falcon 360's in MS inventory
- MS Shipping completed Jasper 360's
- Retailers clearing inventory of Falcon 360's
- Jasper 360's making it to the shelf

Now... much of this happens in parallel but it still could take a while.  Hopefully I won't be waiting for months but hey... they're just games after all.  I'll wait for the hardware with the best chance of long-term survival.  I still have FULLY FUNCTIONAL Sega Saturns and Dreamcasts and have no reason to believe they will die anytime soon.  So... it would be nice to have a 360 with similar longevity.  The original 360 is still the worst hardware thermal design I have ever seen so I am a bit jaded about ever seeing a 360 that lasts like a Saturn.  To be fair... the Dreamcasts had a few flaws also but they are easy to fix when they act up.  They never blow up entirely like the 360.


Scott

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Every lie is just another brick you put in your own prison cell.

Thansk Scott, I appreciate all the info your providing us with.

Considering the fact that i'm trying to get Rid of my current 360 in order for me to make some money to get the new line of 360. Hopefully by the end of September the Jasper Chipset will be in full circulation.....

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I don't know if it's useful info so much as just my perspective.  I've been in the electronics biz for almost twenty years so if that perspective helps people who are waiting for a Jasper then I'm glad to be of service.

Of course as with all things electronic... there is another side of this coin...  The dark and scary part.  :-)

Whenever changes are made to a complex design the probability of new design flaws rises.  The more changes... the higher the probability of new flaws.  The higher the probability of new flaws... the higher the probability that those flaws will make it past internal QA testing and out into the hapless hands of consumers who thought they were buying something dependable.

So... while I am hopeful that the new design will be good and I see the new GPU as a necessity in making the 360 design a stable one... the possibility exists that us early Jasper owners may face a handfull of new design problems with the 360.  I really hope not but as I don't trust the 90nm ATI GPU, I'm willing the take a chance that the new 65nm design will be a solid one.  MS is under major pressure to get it right thus not repeating the huge losses they have had to deal with on past designs so I imagine QA will be rather stringently testing the new design.

Here's hoping.

Scott

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Every lie is just another brick you put in your own prison cell.

Ok so the Jasper is what number in MS's attempt to make a high quality product? Now I don't remember the original XBox having so many troubles nor do I remember any of the older systems really having any problems and from what I have read/watched which is not much I don't really recall the Wii or the PS3 having really any issues. How come MS can't actually stepup and stop *** the customers over. Ok so now more Jasper related how much will it cost when it comes out?

You'll get no argument from me about the design being bad and MS ignoring it for a LONG time but when they finally stepped up with the 3 year RROD warranty I was satisfied that they were "making things right".  I have had two boxes go RROD myself.

As for how many iterations this is... well technically 6 big changes (probably many more small ones)

- Original 90nm CPU/GPU with TERRIBLE THERMAL DESIGN
- Original 90nm CPU/GPU with heatsink retrofit
- Original 90nm CPU/GPU redesign with HDMI port
- 65nm Falcon design (still with 90nm GPU)
- 65nm Falcon design with no mem chips on bottom of board (discovered by Ben Heck)
- 65nm CPU/GPU design (heatsink design and other changes unknown)

The problem is IMO the 90nm GPU has been the Achiles Heel the whole time.  So while the various changes helped they were all bandaids on a flawed design.

The Jasper is technically the FIRST attempt to fix the core problem which has always been the overheating GPU.  So I hold out hope that this may finally turn the once roasting 360 into a comfortable thermal design that doesn't die from consuming it's own overheated exhaust (another HUGE problem with the thermal design).

The other advantage to waiting is that the Jasper 60Gb unit should be $299 by the time it hits the streets according to all the rumors about the price drop in September.

Nevertheless, I still like the system and will wait.


Scott

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Every lie is just another brick you put in your own prison cell.

 Scott47592 wrote:

It may be a bit premature but since today is supposedly the day the Jasper boards are rolling out I figure we should start a thread covering any real - VERIFIED - sightings of Jasper boards identified either internally or through power draw.  If we list them by region we can start to get a feel for where they are showing up and how fast the retail channel is clearing out the Falcon units. 

Ben Heck's breakdown of a new 60G unit was cool and more importantly showed that Jasper is not yet in the channel.

As for me... this is important because after my 2nd 360 died of the RROD I am simply NOT going to use my Target gift card on anything but a Jasper.  The GPU has been the problem child since day one so I'm waiting for a GPU that isn't quite so sweaty.

Scott

Jasper has been delayed. I have posted this in other Jasper threads around the board.

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My "controller" is bigger than your "controller".

can you post a link to the thread, i cant find it. thanks

 BackLash 25 wrote:

can you post a link to the thread, i cant find it. thanks

http://forums.xbox.com/2/21585429/ShowPost.aspx#21585429

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My "controller" is bigger than your "controller".

 Fusker wrote:

 BackLash 25 wrote:

can you post a link to the thread, i cant find it. thanks

http://forums.xbox.com/2/21585429/ShowPost.aspx#21585429

And what, pray tell is your source for these claims of your's? I gotta go [citation needed] here.

 OutwarLackey123 wrote:

 Fusker wrote:

 BackLash 25 wrote:

can you post a link to the thread, i cant find it. thanks

http://forums.xbox.com/2/21585429/ShowPost.aspx#21585429

And what, pray tell is your source for these claims of your's? I gotta go [citation needed] here.

My source is myself. Taken directly from my post.

"I in no way make any guarantees of dates I have listed, or anything in the above post. Take it as is for what its worth. I am saying this because in the past, people have been crucified for being wrong, the only reason I am posting this is I feel it is some valuable information to have in your back pocket when planning to buy a 360."

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My "controller" is bigger than your "controller".

 Fusker wrote:

My source is myself.

If it doesn't work on my English Teacher, it won't work for you.

Unless you somehow prove that you're the XBox Production Manager that is making these decisions.

 MJF3719 wrote:

 Fusker wrote:

My source is myself.

If it doesn't work on my English Teacher, it won't work for you.

Unless you somehow prove that you're the XBox Production Manager that is making these decisions.

Thats where you don't undersatnd me. I am supplying the info, I don't persoanlyl care if you beleive it or not. I have enough credability to say things as such. If you doubt me, I support that because as I said , I do not care, just trying to share what I know.

Also, it would not be a production manager making this decision.

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My "controller" is bigger than your "controller".

 Fusker wrote:

I am supplying the info, I don't persoanlyl care if you beleive it or not.

Sounds Communist to me.

Until you're willing to provide some sort of proof, could you stop posting your info?

 MJF3719 wrote:

Sounds Communist to me.

Until you're willing to provide some sort of proof, could you stop posting your info?

  Fusker has his facts right, I'm sure of that.

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If it can be put on backwards, someone will do it

 Dumpymonkey wrote:

 MJF3719 wrote:

Sounds Communist to me.

Until you're willing to provide some sort of proof, could you stop posting your info?

  Fusker has his facts right, I'm sure of that.

And they wonder why I nor MRCUR really don't like to post new things nemore.

 MJF3719 wrote:

 Fusker wrote:

I am supplying the info, I don't persoanlyl care if you beleive it or not.

Sounds Communist to me.

Until you're willing to provide some sort of proof, could you stop posting your info?

This is why I despise the forums. I will no longer post updates to the public per your request. Thank you for calling my comments "communist" as well. Shows the level of intelligence I am dealing with here.

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My "controller" is bigger than your "controller".

Spelling helps.  Maybe drop some names like TSMC or careful schedule changes to the gates of Valhalla?

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Post provided "as-is" and confers no rights.

Fusker... I for one (the original poster) totally appreciate input from guys like you and MRCUR whom I have known since back in the early days of the RROD.  :-)

Ignore the mor_n.

If forums didn't have unsubstantiated content in them... there would be no more forums.

Of course even this particular thread troll spouting his rhetoric is a necessary part of any forum ecosystem.  Let's just let him dwell where the trolls usually do - in the undergrowth that everybody ignores.  :-)

Later,

Scott

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Every lie is just another brick you put in your own prison cell.

Good reply Scott!  That reminds about MRCUR and his falcon thread.  Are we thinking there will be a GPU heatsink revision that can be seen by flashlight through the fan vent in addition to a possible brick output revision?  The Falcon line should be extendable until it's components aren't useful for Opus anymore.

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Post provided "as-is" and confers no rights.

 Fusker wrote:

 Dumpymonkey wrote:

 MJF3719 wrote:

Sounds Communist to me.

Until you're willing to provide some sort of proof, could you stop posting your info?

  Fusker has his facts right, I'm sure of that.

And they wonder why I nor MRCUR really don't like to post new things nemore.

 MJF3719 wrote:

 Fusker wrote:

I am supplying the info, I don't persoanlyl care if you beleive it or not.

Sounds Communist to me.

Until you're willing to provide some sort of proof, could you stop posting your info?

This is why I despise the forums. I will no longer post updates to the public per your request. Thank you for calling my comments "communist" as well. Shows the level of intelligence I am dealing with here.

As per my communist comment: The whole "Take what I say as fact even though I don't care to provide proof" sounds a bit authoritarian to me (who, if you haven't noticed, is new around here, so I don't really know who you are our your reputation around here).

But I'm willing to bet that the reason you've earned the respect you've gotten from those such as Dumpy and Scott is because you laid out a clear outline of here is what and here is why.

Instead of arguing and defacing anymore; I appologize for slandering you and instead will continue to await for Jasper units to come to the shelves. No harm intended - just hoping to get a bit more than "Because."

MJF3719,

As thread trolls never take responsibility for their comments you are officially off my troll list.  :-)  I was apparently hasty in my judgement of you.  My apologies for my own comments.  Even amongst normally well-behaved forum members things can get a bit tense.  As mentioned I have known MRCUR for a long time since before he was a forum REP.  Good guy with good information.  He is no more infallible than the rest of us but he strives for integrity in his posts as I'm sure Fusker does.  I can't imagine MRCUR spending much time conversing with some troll who posts useless bits of his imagination to gain forum notoriety. 

It may be part of what draws us all to forums is having to sift the real information from the deluge of useless commentary.  Often times, the best information has to remain unsubstantiated to protect the poster.

Scott

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Every lie is just another brick you put in your own prison cell.