The fact that multiplayer games are peer to peer is lame enough. Even a slightly trained monkey understands host advantage is lame. PC games (read: on WINDOWS) in the 90s unilaterally hosted multiplayer matches, and somehow that was a sustainable business model.

Now, based on the idiocy of the multiplayer gaming design throught the 360 and XBL, games will cease to function AT ALL due to the limited "server" functionality that does exist? EASILY things like finding other players for a match over a GAMING SERVICE like XBL could be done, but due to the overall design, the game makers' servers are inseparably tied to the game running at all in multiplayer mode (which of course is the real heart of many games, and especially this game.)

Chromehounds was one of my all time favorite games, and I've been gaming for a long, long time. Now Chromehounds is going to stop working after being only 3-4 years old, yet I can still play PS2 multiplayer games, and 10+ year old PC games for that matter.

This might well be the last straw for me. I've got a lot of money into games, particularly arcade games, which are of no use if I abandon the platform. But really, this might be it for me. Even if the persistant world aspect of the game, sadly, went away, there's no reason deathmatches and the like couldn't still run... if it were not for the eternally broken design of Xbox Live / 360 multiplayer gaming.

A PS3 price drop is rumored, and I wouldn't mind having a bluray player. And as I understand it, PS3 games don't have this potential to be destroyed due to the idiot design of being dependent on some server to say "yep I'm still online!".

Epic fail Microsoft. I don't give a crap if you have to host the tiny application that keeps these games online yourself. If my games are going to be USELESS AFTER 3-4 YEARS, you can keep them. ALL OF THEM.

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Higg
J3sus is Lord
Truth
Reasons.org

I like xboxlive,. Just wish it was free.

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 Paragon 53 wrote:

If your doing a purely ascetic moderation to the case, you should be ok.

 Higg wrote:

The fact that multiplayer games are peer to peer is lame enough. Even a slightly trained monkey understands host advantage is lame. PC games (read: on WINDOWS) in the 90s unilaterally hosted multiplayer matches, and somehow that was a sustainable business model.

Now, based on the idiocy of the multiplayer gaming design throught the 360 and XBL, games will cease to function AT ALL due to the limited "server" functionality that does exist? EASILY things like finding other players for a match over a GAMING SERVICE like XBL could be done, but due to the overall design, the game makers' servers are inseparably tied to the game running at all in multiplayer mode (which of course is the real heart of many games, and especially this game.)

Chromehounds was one of my all time favorite games, and I've been gaming for a long, long time. Now Chromehounds is going to stop working after being only 3-4 years old, yet I can still play PS2 multiplayer games, and 10+ year old PC games for that matter.

This might well be the last straw for me. I've got a lot of money into games, particularly arcade games, which are of no use if I abandon the platform. But really, this might be it for me. Even if the persistant world aspect of the game, sadly, went away, there's no reason deathmatches and the like couldn't still run... if it were not for the eternally broken design of Xbox Live / 360 multiplayer gaming.

A PS3 price drop is rumored, and I wouldn't mind having a bluray player. And as I understand it, PS3 games don't have this potential to be destroyed due to the idiot design of being dependent on some server to say "yep I'm still online!".

Epic fail Microsoft. I don't give a crap if you have to host the tiny application that keeps these games online yourself. If my games are going to be USELESS AFTER 3-4 YEARS, you can keep them. ALL OF THEM.

HAHAHAHA Do you have brain damage? You have this whole thing backwards. All games that use microsofts servers wont shut down, its the ones that have servers run by individual developers/publishers that get shut down after a period of time. Fortunately for xbox users, most games use microsoft servers for matchmaking. There are plenty of original xbox games that still have online functionality. And that whole thing about the games being useless after 3-4 years is moot, they probably will be useless whether the servers are working or not. Just because you can still play online, doesnt mean there will be other people to play against.

Remember kids, think before you post.

 Higg wrote:

And as I understand it, PS3 games don't have this potential to be destroyed due to the idiot design of being dependent on some server to say "yep I'm still online!".

Then you got your *** wrong. The Chromehounds servers are hosted by SEGA, not MS. It's rather uncommon that developers/publishers get to host their own servers for 360 games, another exception is EA. The whole reason to why we have to pay for Xbox Live is is because MS has a huge server park hosting most of the games. The fee goes to the maintenance of that park. The way Sony does it is by letting the publisher/developer host their own servers and having them pay all the expenses. Which is pretty much what MS did here. So yes, PS3 games have this potential very much indeed and I'm quite sure that we'll see them start dropping like flies from PSN in the future.

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Die infidel, die!

Whats ironic, is you can buy Chromehounds on the Japan Marketplace Game on Demand for 2000MSPoints.

Whats the point in putting it on there if the servers are closing in January?

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In this world gone mad, we wont spank the monkey,
The monkey will spank us.

 Piztup wrote:

Whats ironic, is you can buy Chromehounds on the Japan Marketplace Game on Demand for 2000MSPoints.

Whats the point in putting it on there if the servers are closing in January?

How is that ironic?

 The Flyng Camel wrote:

 Piztup wrote:

Whats ironic, is you can buy Chromehounds on the Japan Marketplace Game on Demand for 2000MSPoints.

Whats the point in putting it on there if the servers are closing in January?

How is that ironic?

Is it on the UK or US Mktplace?

---

In this world gone mad, we wont spank the monkey,
The monkey will spank us.

 Piztup wrote:

 The Flyng Camel wrote:

 Piztup wrote:

Whats ironic, is you can buy Chromehounds on the Japan Marketplace Game on Demand for 2000MSPoints.

Whats the point in putting it on there if the servers are closing in January?

How is that ironic?

Is it on the UK or US Mktplace?

thats supposed to be ironic?

 The Flyng Camel wrote:

 Piztup wrote:

 The Flyng Camel wrote:

 Piztup wrote:

Whats ironic, is you can buy Chromehounds on the Japan Marketplace Game on Demand for 2000MSPoints.

Whats the point in putting it on there if the servers are closing in January?

How is that ironic?

Is it on the UK or US Mktplace?

thats supposed to be ironic?

So its pedantic day is it?

Ok.

I found it ironic that it was available to dl on the Jap mktplc, even tho the servers are closing down. OK?

Sheesh.

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In this world gone mad, we wont spank the monkey,
The monkey will spank us.

 Piztup wrote:

 The Flyng Camel wrote:

 Piztup wrote:

 The Flyng Camel wrote:

 Piztup wrote:

Whats ironic, is you can buy Chromehounds on the Japan Marketplace Game on Demand for 2000MSPoints.

Whats the point in putting it on there if the servers are closing in January?

How is that ironic?

Is it on the UK or US Mktplace?

thats supposed to be ironic?

So its pedantic day is it?

Ok.

I found it ironic that it was available to dl on the Jap mktplc, even tho the servers are closing down. OK?

Sheesh.

Thats not ironic at all...

You're right, it's not ironic, it's damn dishonest that they are selling something that is going to stop working very soon.

As for this crap about blame the publisher, use your brains and realize that Microsoft SETS THE RULES for ALL publishers. The buck stops at Bill Gates' portfolio value.

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Higg
J3sus is Lord
Truth
Reasons.org

 Piztup wrote:

Whats ironic, is you can buy Chromehounds on the Japan Marketplace Game on Demand for 2000MSPoints.

Whats the point in putting it on there if the servers are closing in January?

Perhaps the Japs are just sick of losing to people at mech games, it is there big genre over there right........they are shutting the servers for everyone but them

---

Wonderbreads British Connection

www.freewebs.com/thewonderbreads

 Higg wrote:

You're right, it's not ironic, it's damn dishonest that they are selling something that is going to stop working very soon.

Yeah! Damn them for selling a product that still works!! What, are they trying to make money?!

As for this crap about blame the publisher, use your brains and realize that Microsoft SETS THE RULES for ALL publishers. The buck stops at Bill Gates' portfolio value.

1. Bill Gates is no longer the head of Microsoft, so how he has anything to do with this is beyond me.
2.Why does the online work for so many of the original xbox games? Microsoft just forget to shut those servers down? Can you even name a microsoft-run server thats been shut down? If you are gonna blame somebody, make sure you are blaming the right people.
3.Die In A Fire

 The Flyng Camel wrote:

 Why does the online work for so many of the original xbox games?

Genius, that is exactly my point. They work for the same reason PS2 games, or 15 year old PC games work: "SERVERS" ARE NOT REQUIRED FOR MULTIPLAYER GAMING. As I said, and will now say again, this is a DESIGN FLAW in the XBL / 360 multiplayer infrastructure. Look up "Kali" in the internetz and educate yourself on what real gamers have been doing since you were crapping in your diapers. XBL not required, but some sort of locator service is. Oh, and prior to XBL locator services were generally FREE, but that's another discussion.

Let me spell it out for you: Since servers aren't needed, and since MSFT has designed / allowed dependency on servers for 360 games to work properly, it is a DESIGN PROBLEM. This dependency should be removed, so games continue to work, regardless. Only an absolute fanboy, or dumba$$ would not understand this, sorry. So hopefully now you understand.

People STILL play Homeworld 1, and the locator server is STILL kept online by the dev. It doesn't cost jack to run a simple game locator server. MSFT's design mean one very simple things: games are disposable. Or perhaps it would be better said: consumable. Considering the minimal effort it takes to provide for some sort of locator service for a multiplayer game (even a 3rd party service), it is asinine to the point of ludicrousity that Chromehounds is about to stop working.

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Higg
J3sus is Lord
Truth
Reasons.org

 Higg wrote:

Genius, that is exactly my point. They work for the same reason PS2 games, or 15 year old PC games work: "SERVERS" ARE NOT REQUIRED FOR MULTIPLAYER GAMING.

Well genius, most xbox 360 use the same method. Perhaps you should ask the individual developers why they chose to host games on their own servers

As I said, and will now say again, this is a DESIGN FLAW in the XBL / 360 multiplayer infrastructure.

So, if most original xbox live games work, and most xbox 360 games still work, and the only games that dont work after a while are the ones that have servers run by their publisher, how is that a microsoft design flaw? The only "flaw" was letting the publisher host their own server.

Let me spell it out for you: Since servers aren't needed, and since MSFT has designed / allowed dependency on servers for 360 games to work properly, it is a DESIGN PROBLEM. This dependency should be removed, so games continue to work, regardless.

The only games that have this problem are ones that developers/publishers CHOSE to have host their own servers for.

People STILL play Homeworld 1, and the locator server is STILL kept online by the dev. It doesn't cost jack to run a simple game locator server.

Well maybe you should tell that to From and Sega.

 Piztup wrote:

Whats ironic, is you can buy Chromehounds on the Japan Marketplace Game on Demand for 2000MSPoints.

Whats the point in putting it on there if the servers are closing in January?

It just bugs me that sega will keep PSU up and charge 10 dollars to ppl, that game isnt even a true mmorpg, but they will shut down one of the only mech based games out on the market? not fair, I hate democracy sometimes ~Donut

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~Video Game Collector~

 Teh Zeppelin wrote:

 Higg wrote:

And as I understand it, PS3 games don't have this potential to be destroyed due to the idiot design of being dependent on some server to say "yep I'm still online!".

Then you got your *** wrong. The Chromehounds servers are hosted by SEGA, not MS. It's rather uncommon that developers/publishers get to host their own servers for 360 games, another exception is EA. The whole reason to why we have to pay for Xbox Live is is because MS has a huge server park hosting most of the games. The fee goes to the maintenance of that park. The way Sony does it is by letting the publisher/developer host their own servers and having them pay all the expenses. Which is pretty much what MS did here. So yes, PS3 games have this potential very much indeed and I'm quite sure that we'll see them start dropping like flies from PSN in the future.

Come on people, the key is that even though CH is hosted by SEGA, it still runs on Xbox Live, and guess what, that's MS!!!!

PS3's online service has the same protection under their license agreement as Xbox Live/MS, which means they can do whatever they want, whenever they want.  Its the cost of doing business.

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What?

What's the best way to find out exactly how many people still play CH?

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What?

 XI JayD IX wrote:

 Piztup wrote:

Whats ironic, is you can buy Chromehounds on the Japan Marketplace Game on Demand for 2000MSPoints.

Whats the point in putting it on there if the servers are closing in January?

Perhaps the Japs are just sick of losing to people at mech games, it is there big genre over there right........they are shutting the servers for everyone but them

Revenge from the war!!!  They'll show us!!!

---

What?

Wow, the OP needs to get his / her facts straight before going on the warpath.  Genius, Chromehounds runs on Sega's dedicated servers.  Sega decided that 2010 is when they're killing the servers and Microsoft has NOTHING to do with that decision nor the fact that pulling the plug on the servers means the online component for Chromehounds will die.  XBL is a peer-to-peer service and any game that runs solely on XBL (i.e. no dedicated servers or at least dedicated servers being "optional") will forever allow online play so long as there is a way to actually play the games (Xbox games still allow XBL games if you use a BC title on a 360 or any XBL title on an original Xbox).  The only games that do not work are the ones with dedicated servers-only...such as Battlefield 2 Modern Combat and in the near future, Chromehounds. 

I'd also suggest staying away from EA titles...those titles run on EA's servers and they pulled the plug on a bunch of titles already; though most were for Xbox.

P.S.  I wouldn't be so eager to buy a PS3 because most, if not all, of their games are run on dedicated servers.  Once online popularity for a game dies, so does the online component; unless they allow LAN play.  I own a PS3 and don't particularly care for dedicated servers.

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1st Xbox 360: Born on May 6, 2006 Died on October 16, 2006
2nd Xbox 360: Born November 2006 Died on October 6, 2008

 sashimix wrote:

and Microsoft has NOTHING to do with that decision nor the fact that pulling the plug on the servers means the online component for Chromehounds will die. 

MSFT can state:

"If you sell an xbox 360 game, you cannot build in functionality that renders any portion of the game denependent on, or unusable due to, your own server infrastructure."

So then, ALL responsibility does stop at MSFTs door step.

2 decade old PC games continue to work. If you can't put 2 & 2 together I'm not sure how else to spell it out for you.

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Higg
J3sus is Lord
Truth
Reasons.org

 Higg wrote:

 sashimix wrote:

and Microsoft has NOTHING to do with that decision nor the fact that pulling the plug on the servers means the online component for Chromehounds will die. 

MSFT can state:

"If you sell an xbox 360 game, you cannot build in functionality that renders any portion of the game denependent on, or unusable due to, your own server infrastructure."

So then, ALL responsibility does stop at MSFTs door step.

2 decade old PC games continue to work. If you can't put 2 & 2 together I'm not sure how else to spell it out for you.

It's simple, they make exceptions.  They made one to get EA games with online play (ALL their games use EA servers...).  They also made exceptions for FFXI, PSOU, and Chromehounds.  I think the latter are exceptions because the online portion of the game is a persistent world / universe type game.  Thus, the companies need control over the servers and can't rely on strictly peer-to-peer connections.

In any case, that aside, your original argument mixed up the two forms of online connectivity.  Peer-to-peer is the better form of online connectivity as far as longevity.  Dedicated servers are better in terms of latency / lag.  The biggest downfall of dedicated servers, as I've stated, is that once a company shuts down their servers, the online functionality ceases to exist (unless they built in support for users to create dedicated servers; which some games DO support...Far Cry 2, Time Shift, etc.).  Peer-to-Peer will remain in effect until the sun uses up all its fuel and dies or until Microsoft decides it's time to overhaul XBL completely and thus get rid of all older XBL support.

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1st Xbox 360: Born on May 6, 2006 Died on October 16, 2006
2nd Xbox 360: Born November 2006 Died on October 6, 2008

Maybe I am out of place here but why doesn't MS take over the server for chromehounds.  I mean if Sega is truely dropping chromehounds then they should have no problem MS running the server.  It is a win win situation cause MS saves face by not having games played on the system become obsolete and sega still has the game functional so they my still sell a few in the future.  Even if it is Sega dropping servers MS needs to step up and try to run the server and if Sega won't let them then MS needs to let the community know this.  The original xbox is so dead that even Gamestop won't give you 50 cents for them which is horrible PR for MS Along with RROD.  The PS2 still has games made for the system (although few).  MS needs to make an effort to keep chromehounds alive or come out with a similar mech game in near future.

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To *** with work Let's Play!

The only thing that is going to be bad is that I'm not goiung to be able to play chromehounds online now, unless they make a second one where it has the same way like Mercenaries.

The Chromehound servers are being shut down because no one likes hard-core Chromehound gamers.  We have a bit of a bad name I suppose.  I'm in therapy about it.............I'm making progress..............idiots.

 

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Chromehounds, It's not just a job it's an adventure!

That pointless, because they should alllow the non hardcore gamers to play when ever they want.

 Trechobezor wrote:

Maybe I am out of place here but why doesn't MS take over the server for chromehounds. 

Xbox Live, a PAID service, should serve as the multiplayer game locator for ALL multiplayer games on the network. Chromehounds has the persistant world mode, which would require an additional server apart from a locator. If that were to drop (though MSFT has enough money to keep it up for sure), I'd understand. There is NO REASON why Xbox Live can't serve as a locator for playing deathmatch, team deathmatch, etc. in Chromehounds. None, except crappy design. 

 Trechobezor wrote:

MS needs to make an effort to keep chromehounds alive or come out with a similar mech game in near future.

See, that's part of the trick. They want to take away your existing games so you have to buy new ones. Heck with that. This crap is going to push me back to PC gaming.

I've got 15 yr old games that still run. Chromehounds came out in 2006! It's only 2009! My quantum singularity that I'm going to pay $60 for a game that lasts only 3 years. Only the ultimate fanboy idiot (spending their parent's money) would be ok with that. Would anyone buy a game for $60 if they told you up front that it would only function for 3 years? Well as news like this gets out, I'm sure some company will jump in and provide what gamers want. I'm hearing a lot about upcoming streaming game services. If this is how Microsoft is going to treat loyal customers, then I say, let the console die.

And I'm sure we can all look forward to the upcoming class action lawsuit against used game retailers, once they are selling titles en masse (chromehounds, fight night 3, etc) that DO NOT fully function. Anyway...

I have heard of locator services that replace xbox live. If you ever used such a thing it would get your 360 banned if you tried to return to xbox live. I've already set my gold account to not renew (for the first time in 5 YEARS), and I'm not sure if I will. Call it my personal form of protest.

The only game I really want the rest of this year is COD:MW2, and Dust 514 if it comes out this year. Both of them are available on either platform, so I might say heck with it and buy me a blu ray player. With the slims going for 300 (-50 bucks if I don't renew my gold sub), 250 for a blu ray player (with built in wifi and a user upgradable hard drive?!?!) that will play the next two games coming out that I care about doesn't sound so bad. Microsoft is on the verge of losing my business. They may not care, but I've told them all the same.

Ok now, fanboys unite! You can haz teh haloz!

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Higg
J3sus is Lord
Truth
Reasons.org

Microsoft isn't shutting down servers and basically "bricking" online portions of games.  It's the companies who decide that THEY are going to be the sole form of connectivity as far as online multiplayer is concerned.  EA wouldn't agree to add online functionality to their Xbox games until Microsoft agreed that EA could run their own dedicated servers for online gameplay.  Other companies (Sega, Square, etc.) run their own dedicated servers because they feature persistent or MMO-type online games which do require a bit of "control" over servers and content so gamers have a consistent experience.

I agree that the way Chromehounds was programmed (if it indeed does work this way) was bad because there's no reason why we can't have access to a non-persistent Neroimus War (I mean, you CAN battle against the CPU) nor access to Free Battle (which is basically just like any other type of online multiplayer game on XBL).

In any case, the fraction of XBL-enabled games that will cease to exist once a company decides to pull the plug is actually very small.  The majority of XBL-enabled games run using P2P connections or allow for gamers to create their own dedicated servers.  Also, even if XBL were to cease to exist in some point in the future, a lot of games also feature System-Link functionality.  SL allows you to connect consoles locally or even via the Internet using tunneling applications.

As for your MW2 and Dust 514 (I have no idea what game the latter is...never heard of it), MW2 will more than likely support System-Link functionality and it should be based on P2P connections for XBL, so you should be all set.

P.S.  If I'm not mistaken, all of the PS3 games run using dedicated servers...   Also, PSN pales in comparison to XBL.  No voice chat, no party chat, no voice messages, no cross-game invites.  Maybe that's why I do most of my gaming on my 360...

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1st Xbox 360: Born on May 6, 2006 Died on October 16, 2006
2nd Xbox 360: Born November 2006 Died on October 6, 2008

All of that is true.

All ur stupid talk about not needing a server means nothing for this game. Because of the way the game works there has to be a server. the fact that the war is always changing can not be done without a server. the information of how many points are lost at each map has to be past to every xbox by the server. the design of this one game makes it need a server or it will not work. there are many other games such as Gears and halo that do not need a server and how many people hear can still pull out the old xbox and play halo? ummm I can!!! so shout ur fat mouth and just deal with the fact that the game has started to cost to much for them to continue, and open your eyes to the 100's of other games that are great for the xbox. Plus i own a ps3 and the gaming on it sucks. the online games crash a lot for me. the only good thing about the ps3 is that it is a blue ray play that updates with out getting a disc and it updates faster.