You pretty much summed it all up.
It's almost heartbreaking to see how Pom Pom left the hardcore fan base out in the rain, making the sequel to one of the most prestigious achievements ever boring and as far from prestigious as possible.
The "Heck, I'll give it one more go!"-feeling is also nowhere to be found. Instead I find myself wanting to finish the darn game off so I can put it in my 200/200-folder, never to be played again.
Vagrant Pistol wrote:Yeah, REAllY dissappointed!!!! I'm in no rush to get blackbelt. This is way too easy and nowhere near as enjoyable as MSR. Grandmaster (GM)is nowhere near as hard (basically whoever buys the game first, and is good and spends the day on it, will get the GM ,and it's wayyyyyyy too short)...Kool concept but they could have done better. I played it this morning and i'm in no rush to play it tonight.
SnapDragon wrote:Huh? You're declaring Black Belt unplayably hard after one day? That seems ridiculous.With practice and good strategy, I could definitely see someone going through the entire game on Black Belt, start to finish. Perhaps not without dying... but who knows what'll be possible?I think the only reason for disappointment is if you were expecting the game mechanics to be exactly the same as MSR. Why not learn the new game instead of complaining about what's changed? Just because you were good at MSR doesn't uniquely qualify you to judge this one. :)It is a pity that there's no hard achievement, though. Both Hexic 2 and MSE were big steps down in difficulty from their forebears, achievement-wise.
The problem with the levels now is that they're basically adapted for co-op play, you can't apply the same sneaky tactics and slick movement as we all used in MSR. For example the levels with the generators. What were they thinking reducing the spawntime of things comming from the generator to 0.000001 seconds? It sort of removes the tactic element where you kill the spawn and then go for the generator, instead it leaves you fighting for your life while time is running out!
SnapDragon wrote:I think the only reason for disappointment is if you were expecting the game mechanics to be exactly the same as MSR. Why not learn the new game instead of complaining about what's changed? Just because you were good at MSR doesn't uniquely qualify you to judge this one. :)
Yeah, I have to say also really dissapointed with Empires. Tally mode is a complete joke, ( May the best camper win). The tactical strategy you had to use on reloaded is thrown out the window. So you could suck at this game and still be in the top 10.
I also hate the way some of this rooms are designed, there just horrible. Some of this rooms are so packed with things everywhere that there is no way to manuever. So you end up in a corner with like 30 shots going at you, and there is simply no way to go. Horrible level design.
Empire is good, but nowhere close to the great game that is Mutant Storm Reloaded.
Well I finally decided to purchase Reloaded for now, Empire just looked a little tedious, but I'll probably pick it up later.
Had a good laugh after my first game on leaderboards when I saw Infrared2yahead, and a few others here. I think I got to level 15 with about 400,000 ;-)
SnapDragon wrote:Ok, I see what you mean. Maybe you're right, that this game isn't as good as MSR. But I do think it should be judged on its own merits, since the mechanics are different in almost every way.Are you referring to world 4 level 1 room 4? (Isn't 4-1 where you have to break down the doors?) You CAN distract that enemy and get him to the other side; that's how I do it. (He comes back, but not before you can power through the doors.)I agree that there are levels that seem impossible (right now) without using your special weapon... but why exclude using your special weapon? It's an important part of the game, and I'm sure the top scorers will end up making optimal use of it. :)
I played MSE at 5am on Wednesday, went back to bed at 7am kinda disappointed. It looks really nice, and some of the Mutants are kinda cool, but it just doesn't have the same kind of rush that MSR had. I haven't had a lot of time to play anything lately, but I'll probably find some time next week to give it a workout.
Just play Lvl 89 of MSR on Black Belt... that'll get your pulse racing and palms sweaty... just not happening in MSE.
The lack of a decent follow up to GW:RE on Xbox Live (Galaxies is coming, maybe it'll be decent...) and now MSE kinda lacking something is disappointing. Do I have to go write a decent arcade shooter myself??
Triplethreat99 wrote:Yeah, I have to say also really dissapointed with Empires. Tally mode is a complete joke, ( May the best camper win).
Yeah, I have to say also really dissapointed with Empires. Tally mode is a complete joke, ( May the best camper win).
KitesAreFun wrote:Ok I was finally able to spend an hour or so with the game. I have a few comments.Some of you may be disappointed (as the MSR hardcore that you are) but clearly A LOT more work went into this sequel from the developers end. I hope you can recognize this and appreciate their efforts in that regard. Lots of the AI is original and context sensitive, as are the levels. This requires a great deal more thought, effort and hard work to pull off from a development standpoint.In theory I'm not jumping on the bandwagon yet: declaring this a "disappointment" - even for the hardcore players. While you may be disappointed that you can't be "clever" and come up with original solutions to the games problem(s), this game rewards outright "skill" as much or more than the other game. Shouldn't hardcore games be about this? Either you have an ability to dodge and shoot things better than someone else... or you don't. Think about Tetris. That's an ability - it's all in the genes with a little hard work to supplement it. I don't think the "system" in the new game is better, but the nature of the AI enemies is why I'm calling this game hardcore. For the ulitmate MS game, I'd simply take the system of the old game, and spice it up with all the new enemies in this game (and then some), and put a little more thought into each of the arena's.Furthermore, maybe it botheres you that there is a ton of ways to get your score higher? Someone can combo better than you? Someone found out the perfect timing to finish the level right as they get the max combos? This game still has a lot of legs for the ones that want to maximize their potential. For others, not so much. The bottom line is I think it's a little preliminary to just shoot down the game at this point.
Infrared2yaHead wrote: KitesAreFun wrote:Ok I was finally able to spend an hour or so with the game. I have a few comments.Some of you may be disappointed (as the MSR hardcore that you are) but clearly A LOT more work went into this sequel from the developers end. I hope you can recognize this and appreciate their efforts in that regard. Lots of the AI is original and context sensitive, as are the levels. This requires a great deal more thought, effort and hard work to pull off from a development standpoint.In theory I'm not jumping on the bandwagon yet: declaring this a "disappointment" - even for the hardcore players. While you may be disappointed that you can't be "clever" and come up with original solutions to the games problem(s), this game rewards outright "skill" as much or more than the other game. Shouldn't hardcore games be about this? Either you have an ability to dodge and shoot things better than someone else... or you don't. Think about Tetris. That's an ability - it's all in the genes with a little hard work to supplement it. I don't think the "system" in the new game is better, but the nature of the AI enemies is why I'm calling this game hardcore. For the ulitmate MS game, I'd simply take the system of the old game, and spice it up with all the new enemies in this game (and then some), and put a little more thought into each of the arena's.Furthermore, maybe it botheres you that there is a ton of ways to get your score higher? Someone can combo better than you? Someone found out the perfect timing to finish the level right as they get the max combos? This game still has a lot of legs for the ones that want to maximize their potential. For others, not so much. The bottom line is I think it's a little preliminary to just shoot down the game at this point.Nice post!with further playing of about 5-6 hours...I have grown to liking this game...especially the coop side...it is a different way to play...and with multiple leaderboards,it looks like ill be here awhile...so my second thoughts are,it may not be the original...but over time it should go down as a classic just like reloaded...
DROGTURIST wrote:A great example, I think, is world 4 level 3 room 4. One of those enemies that looks like the car in Knight Rider spawns exactly opposite of the generator. If you kill him, he instantly respawns. He follows you closely, and if you fire at him he only goes a few inches away (unlike the previous room, where you can "control" him). In single, it's not impossible, but there's no real strategy there at all. You, again, basically push him into a corner and stand still and fire at the generator doors while dodging his shots. You can't do anything smart like going to the other side of the level and tricking him into hiding there or anything, as he's too smart for that and will always follow you. The design here is quite clearly for two players; one distracts KITT, the other destroys the generator.
The fact that KITT follows you is the reason why the level is designed the way it is. The easy way to complete the level is to let KITT chase you around the oval, with you shooting the shields and generator as you pass them on every circuit of the oval you do. KITT only releases the small green enemies when you attack him, so the only real problem you have is avoiding his bullets on the back straight. When the generator is down you can take out the targetting enemies and then do KITT at your leisure.
KitesAreFun wrote:Some of you may be disappointed (as the MSR hardcore that you are) but clearly A LOT more work went into this sequel from the developers end. I hope you can recognize this and appreciate their efforts in that regard. Lots of the AI is original and context sensitive, as are the levels. This requires a great deal more thought, effort and hard work to pull off from a development standpoint.
KitesAreFun wrote:While you may be disappointed that you can't be "clever" and come up with original solutions to the games problem(s), this game rewards outright "skill" as much or more than the other game. Shouldn't hardcore games be about this?
KitesAreFun wrote:I don't think the "system" in the new game is better, but the nature of the AI enemies is why I'm calling this game hardcore.
KitesAreFun wrote:Furthermore, maybe it botheres you that there is a ton of annoying ways to get your score higher? ;)
Interesting thread.
Sounds to me as if some folk are having difficulty forgiving the game for not being a straight copy of MSR with a new set of levels.
If you want new levels for Mutant Storm it would be wise to invest in a copy of the game for the PC and make use of the level editor and the ready-made levels that fans have produced, or just make your own and share them around.
DROGTURIST wrote:Well, the graphics alone let you know that this game had more hard work put into it. Does that make it better, though, or more worth the money? No, not really. The guys who do those shovelware Shrek games and whatnot are the hardest-working people in the industry (as they get insane deadlines, like 8 months to do a next-gen game). Doesn't mean we give them high review scores and the sales they really do deserve for putting in such hard work. That's not how the world works.
DROGTURIST wrote:I have zero clue what you're talking about here. You can't just say the game rewards skill when several skilled MSR players have already stated that they don't think so, not without posting some arguments or at least a clue to what your train of thought was here.
DROGTURIST wrote:Again, I really have no idea what you're talking about. There is no "enemy AI" to speak of at all. Most enemies follow a set pattern that they always follow. The rest follow you, which is very simplistic behaviour I find hard to call 'artificial intelligence.' I mean, even games from the 70's had enemies following you.
DROGTURIST wrote:Considering the fact that scoring works the same as in Reloaded; not really?
Crunchy RP wrote:Interesting thread. Sounds to me as if some folk are having difficulty forgiving the game for not being a straight copy of MSR with a new set of levels. If you want new levels for Mutant Storm it would be wise to invest in a copy of the game for the PC and make use of the level editor and the ready-made levels that fans have produced, or just make your own and share them around.
read a few of the comments & though i'd add one . i've played the heck out of msr when it first was released & it's still one of my favorites on the arcade. i haven't had a chance to play for more than five minutes on mse ( still haven't beaten the first world yet ) but from what i've seen so far i'm very happy with it. the achievements do look abit easier but it's not a big deal to me. so it gets the thumbs up from HoLy
I have 200/200 in MS:R, but have only played the demo for MS:E (kinda broke at the moment). The graphics were nice, co-op is very welcomed, I enjoyed the enemies, and the gameplay was enjoyable for the 10 minutes I played. The level design did seem a tad weak and the easy achievements sadden me. Also, only 16 levels is a disappointment. I would have been happy with 20 levels. Overall though I was impressed with the demo and will be enjoying the full game shortly.
KitesAreFun wrote:Well didn't you say the game was too hard? Aren't you overwhelmed. Some of you have said that said nobody can beat this game with one guy on Black Belt right ?
KitesAreFun wrote:It's funny, because on one hand some of you tell us how hard the game is, and on the other you complain that it isn't skill worthy. Make up your mind.
KitesAreFun wrote:Geez ya think? From the 70's?! No kidding. The enemy AI overwhelms the player. Many "enemies" come at you in higher number and at a faster pace in smaller arenas than Mutant Storm reloaded on Black Belt. The "system" I am referring to is going through "proper levels", not arenas, blasting baddies. You can include everything else under "system": game length, having a time limit with combos etc and perfecting where to get your points and where to sit and wait and where not to. You were complaining earlier about not being able to be "original" to "tackle" the levels. Or about not having many different ways for an arena to be completed. THAT is now gone (says you). How can you have no idea what I'm talking about?
KitesAreFun wrote:You're just wrong. Scoring does not work the same. Here are a few examples: the multiplier goes down one level after getting hit. That's one difference (which you also mentioned).
KitesAreFun wrote:Here's another: You want to actually "spend time" completing levels and picking where you get the most maximum damage for the time spent.