I love the game of chess. It's a beautiful game in many ways. The game is quite simplistic to learn as there are only 6 different types of pieces, which all move and kill in a certain way, and then a handful of rules. But beyond that there is nearly an infinite amount of strategy and planning to learn and master.

I can learn a lot from chess, and I can apply what I learn to my life. Chess flexes the brain the way Weights flex your muscles. People don’t weight lift because they might be walking down the street and walk by a dumbbell that needs to be lifted. But it keeps them healthy, and able to lift things if they need to, like a couch, or doing other physical activities. I don’t play chess because I'm afraid of randomly finding a chess game lying on the ground in front of my path that I must win. But it does flex my brain, keep me sharp, and allow me to apply some things I learn from chess to my life.

Chess teaches me patience. First it teaches me to think before I move a piece on the board, and look carefully at the wide variety of options, and look for a better move. When I find a better move it teaches me too look closer and make sure it's better, imagining what my opponents next move may be.

In chess it is important to look ahead in a game and picture the chessboard in your head with pieces moved. If you move a piece you need to then look at the board in your head with that piece moved and see how the landscape of the game has changed. A single move can very often change the outcome of an entire game. Chess is basically a mathematical formula in the form of a game. If look at an algebraic formula that is quite complex and change one period or at a multiplication symbol it completely changes the outcome of the problem. It’s the same in a game of chess. This is why it is important to picture a move in your head and possible subsequent moves as well before you make the move on the board.

Picturing this in your head "flexes" your brain and this can be useful in your life as well. you can use the same technique when having an argument with someone. If you say something specific, how will you respond? You can picture your life if you choose to move somewhere, instead of staying put, how will your life change? What aspects will remain the same? There are an infinite number of examples I could give, but it should suffice to say that picturing many games of chess in your head is a useful exercise that can be translated into situations that may arise in your life.

In chess you have pieces to work with. These pieces need to work in conjunction with each other to accomplish goals, with the ultimate goal of winning the game. Perhaps you are trying to move a pawn across the board to promote it to a queen - The pawn, if left to itself will probably be killed by your opponent, or blocked by a piece. To circumvent this you will probably need at least one other piece backing it up. Maybe a rook directly behind it or a pawn to its side (behind) so is a piece takes it, you can kill it with the second pawn. Sometimes you might have five or so pieces all focused on the pawn, because it has the potential to become something much more powerful. Every single checkmate possible requires the combination of more than one piece outside of the checkmated king. Every piece is vulnerable to other pieces in certain condition. Every piece has weakness and strengths.

As in chess, in life, you utilize tools, people, skills, objects, anything, to accomplish a goal, and these are best used in combinations, as in chess. A simple example is preparing a resume. You may have letters of recommendation, as well as previous job history, and these things work together to fight for you to get a job. This is like pushing a pawn across the board. Obviously there are many differences. But chess helps you think about all of the tools you have at your disposal, from connections and people you know, to the Internet, to money, a car a pencil and paper, etc. Every time you want to accomplish anything you have to size up what you have available and work with it. If you want to get to work.. If you have a car, use that. If it’s nearly out of gas do you have cash and a gas station at your disposal? Same is true of chess, you may need a rook in a certain place on the board but in order to get it there you may need to use your other pieces first.

Chess teaches you the importance of planning ahead. If you move pieces randomly, or only moves that accomplish a short term goal, without thought for several moves down the line you will quickly get into trouble. I know for me, situations have came up in my day to day life where I took extra effort to plan ahead solely because I thought about how I plan ahead in chess. If I am going to expend so much mental energy on a game, why would I not do so in my life as well?

Flexibility in chess is very important. Every time a piece is moved the board needs to be entirely rechecked for possible moves. In life there aren't turns so it can be harder to remember to continually reevaluate your situation, but it is still very important to do.

People give up and let chaos theory dictate the outcome instead of themselves. In chess if someone does not see a move they like, or an obvious move, they may give up and randomly move a piece. Be focused; don't let your opponent control the outcome.

Life is like a chess tournament, because you have several smaller goals within the ultimate goals. You can fail at some goals, or games, and still accomplish your larger goals. With within your games or smaller goals you have to have even smaller goals. I feel sometimes I'm losing in my life for awhile, and then I get back on track for awhile, and its somewhat of a cycle. Both in a chess tournament and life it can come down to be focused and STAYING focused.

My actions and choices in chess reflect my actions in choices in life. I am always slow to start, and am rarely aggressive, I take my time, too much time to position myself. I have missed many opportunities to check mate an enemy early on. The same is true in my day to day life. When I am planning for something such as moving, or changing jobs or even smaller things, such as making a piece of art, or organizing my room, I spend too much time readying myself and have a hard time with the follow through.

Chess teaches humility. I have noticed that sometimes I will play someone not as good as I am. Or I play someone as good as I am, but I am well ahead in the game. I get cocky and end up losing. This happens on a professional level, and it happens in life. A example of this would be the designers of the Titanic. They became too cocky. Hubris will be your downfall in chess and life if you aren't careful.

I don't think much about my physical self, my appearance what I wear, my environment, I put more of my energy into helping others, or thinking about ideas involving philosophy and politics and more. I have noticed on the chess board my king is just a nuisance the way my physical body is in real life. I neglect my king and lose early on sometimes, but this is something I am working on, and I think I should work on this in my life as well.

Hi ResolvedAce,

You're sure right about the teaching you patience part.

Nice essay!

-AlienDjinn

 ResolvedAce wrote:

Chess flexes the brain the way Weights flex your muscles.

And for entertainment value, it sure beats the he11 out of playing Brain Age.   

 

Enjoyed reading this. Nice post.

Thank you.

I saw this also at http://www.chessforums.org/general-chess-discussion/2033-chess-its-applications-life.html. Does that make you Eternally Ignorant?

Anywhere else you want to post it? I'd suggest my favorite online correspondence chess site, http://www.redhotpawn.com. It's a good thread for the General Forum there.

---

Victoly!

A very beautiful and well written post. Love it!
I have been an avid chess player many years ago and looking to start again soon. Probably I will meet you and few others from here on live.

I am EternallyIgnorant. The xbox.com website wouldnt allow that long of a name or something, so I had to settle for this. it was just one of the suggested options, and it sounded ok, so I used it. I used to post on these forums alot, years ago. I had several thousand posts, heh. Ill post it on that forum. I posted it a few places out of curiousity of other peoples opinions.

Cool. Some great reflections in there; what was the inspiration to sit down and compose this essay?

---

Victoly!

 blakbuzzrd wrote:

Cool. Some great reflections in there; what was the inspiration to sit down and compose this essay?

Well, I write a lot. As I mentioned on this forum alone I had several thousand posts.  So this was just a longer post for me. I write an "essay" like this about once a week. I aim for more, but dont always get there. Specifically my inspiration for this was because I love chess, and I get into spurts of obsession with playing it for a few months. I start inorporating chess into my dreams, and how a view life. I started thinking about how chess is like a simulation of life, and how it teaches you things. I talked to some people about that (people who even play chess) and most of them seemed fairly confused. so I deicded to sit down and write out what I thought about it.

 ResolvedAce wrote:

I love the game of chess. It's a beautiful game in many ways. The game is quite simplistic to learn as there are only 6 different types of pieces, which all move and kill in a certain way, and then a handful of rules. But beyond that there is nearly an infinite amount of strategy and planning to learn and master.

I can learn a lot from chess, and I can apply what I learn to my life. Chess flexes the brain the way Weights flex your muscles. People don’t weight lift because they might be walking down the street and walk by a dumbbell that needs to be lifted. But it keeps them healthy, and able to lift things if they need to, like a couch, or doing other physical activities. I don’t play chess because I'm afraid of randomly finding a chess game lying on the ground in front of my path that I must win. But it does flex my brain, keep me sharp, and allow me to apply some things I learn from chess to my life.

Chess teaches me patience. First it teaches me to think before I move a piece on the board, and look carefully at the wide variety of options, and look for a better move. When I find a better move it teaches me too look closer and make sure it's better, imagining what my opponents next move may be.

In chess it is important to look ahead in a game and picture the chessboard in your head with pieces moved. If you move a piece you need to then look at the board in your head with that piece moved and see how the landscape of the game has changed. A single move can very often change the outcome of an entire game. Chess is basically a mathematical formula in the form of a game. If look at an algebraic formula that is quite complex and change one period or at a multiplication symbol it completely changes the outcome of the problem. It’s the same in a game of chess. This is why it is important to picture a move in your head and possible subsequent moves as well before you make the move on the board.

Picturing this in your head "flexes" your brain and this can be useful in your life as well. you can use the same technique when having an argument with someone. If you say something specific, how will you respond? You can picture your life if you choose to move somewhere, instead of staying put, how will your life change? What aspects will remain the same? There are an infinite number of examples I could give, but it should suffice to say that picturing many games of chess in your head is a useful exercise that can be translated into situations that may arise in your life.

In chess you have pieces to work with. These pieces need to work in conjunction with each other to accomplish goals, with the ultimate goal of winning the game. Perhaps you are trying to move a pawn across the board to promote it to a queen - The pawn, if left to itself will probably be killed by your opponent, or blocked by a piece. To circumvent this you will probably need at least one other piece backing it up. Maybe a rook directly behind it or a pawn to its side (behind) so is a piece takes it, you can kill it with the second pawn. Sometimes you might have five or so pieces all focused on the pawn, because it has the potential to become something much more powerful. Every single checkmate possible requires the combination of more than one piece outside of the checkmated king. Every piece is vulnerable to other pieces in certain condition. Every piece has weakness and strengths.

As in chess, in life, you utilize tools, people, skills, objects, anything, to accomplish a goal, and these are best used in combinations, as in chess. A simple example is preparing a resume. You may have letters of recommendation, as well as previous job history, and these things work together to fight for you to get a job. This is like pushing a pawn across the board. Obviously there are many differences. But chess helps you think about all of the tools you have at your disposal, from connections and people you know, to the Internet, to money, a car a pencil and paper, etc. Every time you want to accomplish anything you have to size up what you have available and work with it. If you want to get to work.. If you have a car, use that. If it’s nearly out of gas do you have cash and a gas station at your disposal? Same is true of chess, you may need a rook in a certain place on the board but in order to get it there you may need to use your other pieces first.

Chess teaches you the importance of planning ahead. If you move pieces randomly, or only moves that accomplish a short term goal, without thought for several moves down the line you will quickly get into trouble. I know for me, situations have came up in my day to day life where I took extra effort to plan ahead solely because I thought about how I plan ahead in chess. If I am going to expend so much mental energy on a game, why would I not do so in my life as well?

Flexibility in chess is very important. Every time a piece is moved the board needs to be entirely rechecked for possible moves. In life there aren't turns so it can be harder to remember to continually reevaluate your situation, but it is still very important to do.

People give up and let chaos theory dictate the outcome instead of themselves. In chess if someone does not see a move they like, or an obvious move, they may give up and randomly move a piece. Be focused; don't let your opponent control the outcome.

Life is like a chess tournament, because you have several smaller goals within the ultimate goals. You can fail at some goals, or games, and still accomplish your larger goals. With within your games or smaller goals you have to have even smaller goals. I feel sometimes I'm losing in my life for awhile, and then I get back on track for awhile, and its somewhat of a cycle. Both in a chess tournament and life it can come down to be focused and STAYING focused.

My actions and choices in chess reflect my actions in choices in life. I am always slow to start, and am rarely aggressive, I take my time, too much time to position myself. I have missed many opportunities to check mate an enemy early on. The same is true in my day to day life. When I am planning for something such as moving, or changing jobs or even smaller things, such as making a piece of art, or organizing my room, I spend too much time readying myself and have a hard time with the follow through.

Chess teaches humility. I have noticed that sometimes I will play someone not as good as I am. Or I play someone as good as I am, but I am well ahead in the game. I get cocky and end up losing. This happens on a professional level, and it happens in life. A example of this would be the designers of the Titanic. They became too cocky. Hubris will be your downfall in chess and life if you aren't careful.

I don't think much about my physical self, my appearance what I wear, my environment, I put more of my energy into helping others, or thinking about ideas involving philosophy and politics and more. I have noticed on the chess board my king is just a nuisance the way my physical body is in real life. I neglect my king and lose early on sometimes, but this is something I am working on, and I think I should work on this in my life as well.

Very well said. I can certainly agree with that way of looking at it.

 MistahToad wrote:

 ResolvedAce wrote:

Chess flexes the brain the way Weights flex your muscles.

And for entertainment value, it sure beats the he11 out of playing Brain Age.   

 

I don't know why everyone dislikes brain age so much. It tests your reflexes, your coordination, and different parts of the brain that aren't really utilised in most chess games.

I want to get one of those cds that has like 1000 games on it, then play a different one every day for a year. Try to learn a little strategy to each one.  So many different types of strategies and way of thinking I think would come in very useful. And I would learn some games that I would enjoy.

I enjoyed your post but its not my nature to not thoroughly analyze and pick apart your essay. Me being a chess lover and a self proclaimed "philosopher" myself have also noticed how not only chess but games/competition in general "flexes" the mind. Competition is sewn into our DNA, if we were to have an upfront direct win lose factor in public school systems i bet we wouldnt have a drop out rate as high as we do. Everybody wants to be a winner, and when you lose naturally you want to improve so you can win. And when you cant win you start thinking, thinking of ways to win (hence cheaters), flexing your mind so you can come out on top. Competition keeps us on our toes mentally and physically, granted most people aren't looking at it consciously while they're joyessly killing an onslaught of mercenaries coming at you in every direction in Rainbowsix Vegas 2 "saying wow this is really going to improve my hand eye coordination, reflexes, and quick decision making."  Or the fact that memorizing the codes for all the GTAIII games are gonna improve overall memory(or push the more important memories like idk the pythagoras theorem out the window...really depends on the individual). And i think thats the problem i have with your essay overall is the definitive answer on how chess improves this and chess relates to that, misleading a bunch of people who are the normal lets believe this guy cuz he sounds smart people, as if your perceptions on how chess relates to life is a way of life. May of not been your intentions but as i said me being me i start from the bottom, the basics the root of all things, chess is a game, games were derived from our inherent nature to compete. And the connection between chess and patience is only touching on the classical sense of chess, completely disreguarding speed chess. Granted its always important to make sure you ask 'Why?", why are you moving that piece, what is that pieces purpose and as you said you need to accomplish your goal, and that goal is simply to capture that king. Now you need to come up with a platform strategy im gonna attack from the right, im gonna attack from the left and stick to it. With over 5200 opening moves if you know your pieces and know your board you have no need to kno your opponent, you will know precisely what to do when he does it, becuz why, because you have your plan 12 steps b4 he even thinks of a plan(speed chess of course). Which i totally agree with you in plan ahead, far far ahead, but you can only implicate that into certain aspects of your life, if you were to think 12 steps ahead of every decision you make you'd never make a mistake, meaning you would never learn, the majority of things that happen to you in life wouldnt happen. The joys of life  would be depleted, the unexpected wouldnt happen cuz you would expect it to and maybe not take that 1st step into something great becuz of what might or might not be. And from personal experience even if you have everything planned, its still a guessing game becuz you expect to see every move on the board or atleast expect to kno how the games gonna be played out, your oppononent may give you an opening that could win you the game 25 moves b4 u expected, or may throw a pawn right in the path of victory, so your always gonna have to be able think on the fly, and throw all plans out the window and come up with new plans(like speed chess).  Now i could go on and be poetic and talk about how chess is like war except  for the fact that you cant win the heart of the knight and you cant compromise with a bishop, but my end isnt focused on chess persay, i guess really you could call it an attack(thats what most ppl are gonna do) i was just focused on the key points that you may have not thought about or left out  and how i felt about what i read. You're definately right on most things you said and you have knack for writing  im just not one for defintive answers(guys are like this,woman are like that,blacks do this,whites talk like that) we're all people we all do the same ***, i just thought you were missing the broader more wordly approach, but thats my opinion and i have my right to it : ). As a thinking mind i wish i knew you in person youd be fun to bounce ideas off of/argue which ever came 1st.

btw i think u needed a closer rather than a self reflecting/pity statement,even tho the 1st sentence is typically how u should live anyway. get your confidence up homey                 

"if we were to have an upfront direct win lose factor in public school systems i bet we wouldnt have a drop out rate as high as we do. Everybody wants to be a winner, and when you lose naturally you want to improve so you can win. And when you cant win you start thinking, thinking of ways to win (hence cheaters), flexing your mind so you can come out on top."

Interesting idea, although I cant say I agree with it. One reason, as you mentioned is the abundace of cheaters that would arise. A point you may be missing here is that while competition is within all of us, not all of us would have an urge to compete in all areas, or even any. This would turn moe off to learning if I was in high school. Infact when I was in seventh grade, at one point I have straight Fs on a report card. I wasnt lazy, and I wasnt stupid. I aced tests and refused to do busy work. Another thing is that having hyper competitive children seems like a step in the wrong direction to me. Not that I want apathetic kids, I just dont think children more focused on winning than actually learning is a much better alternative. I think school should focus on instilling a love of learning in kids. Memorizing facts is stupid when they have google. Thats not a joke, Google exists, if they are going to need to retrieve some arcane fact, they have google. Instead of having them memorize facts, teach them everything you can possibly know about google. And believe me, there is ALOT of hidden features in google. ANyways, this is off the subjects so I will digress.

"And i think thats the problem i have with your essay overall is the definitive answer on how chess improves this and chess relates to that, misleading a bunch of people who are the normal lets believe this guy cuz he sounds smart people, as if your perceptions on how chess relates to life is a way of life. May of not been your intentions but as i said me being me i start from the bottom, the basics the root of all things, chess is a game, games were derived from our inherent nature to compete. And the connection between chess and patience is only touching on the classical sense of chess, completely disreguarding speed chess."

 You are right, I was not trying to come off that way. I wouldn't ever want people to believe something they read online from anyonre (or offline) without doing some critical thinking of their own.  Everything I said was true, because I never said that those things were the case for EVERY case.

True chess is a game, however, its origins date back to kings and military commanders playing chess as a form of study, learning about tactics. To this day, chess is used in business schools and militaries around the world as a training excercise.  Chess has many uses. sometimes I play it for fun, sometimes I play it to learn, but either way i always play it because I'm addicted. :)

I'm glad I sound smart, thank you.

How a view chess is not a way of life but it is definitely a way to look at life. Its important and useful to look at life in many ways, and what I described in my first post is only one of an infinite amount.

"And the connection between chess and patience is only touching on the classical sense of chess, completely disreguarding speed chess."

Yes, speed chess teaches me many things, but not generally patience. I did not mention speed chess because my essay was about what chess has taught me. I wrote this for fun, not for a class, and I didnt get paid, I just wrote about what chess means to me. I defenitely could have included speed chess, but my first post was in no way meant to be all encompassing.  In fact I highly encourage others to post what chess means to them, what they have gotten from it, etc. I would expect some answers differing very much from my own.

Which i totally agree with you in plan ahead, far far ahead, but you can only implicate that into certain aspects of your life, if you were to think 12 steps ahead of every decision you make you'd never make a mistake, meaning you would never learn, the majority of things that happen to you in life wouldnt happen.

Chess is incredibly simple and predicitable in comparison to life. Its a small board with 64 squares, and a total of 32 peices which fall into 6 categories, and the game is turn based. Even with chess no human has found chess predictable enough find chess boring.

Life is infinitely more complex, and if it is even possible to predict everything that happens down to a science, no human mind has ever been able to even come close to that capable.

So you can still evert as much effort as possible into prediciting your life and you will still be surprised daily. A friend unexpectedly stops by and you have to change your plans. You find out you have cancer. you are driving down and unfamiliar road, and have no idea what comes next. You get married to your soulmate and realize that she/he is not infact your soulmate. I dont think life will ever be predictable, unless a person choose to have no life figuratively, and just sit at home all the time.

btw i think u needed a closer rather than a self reflecting/pity statement,even tho the 1st sentence is typically how u should live anyway. get your confidence up homey

I dont quite follow that, sorry. But I will say I dont think I have a self confidence problem. I, and anyone else can always use more of course. (used in the right way).


Thanks for the post, I definitely enjoyed reading it. I hope youll post again, and sorry I took so long to respond, I dont come here so often.

Oh, and I'm not trying to be rude, but paragraphs would definitely make your post easier to read. You post was well written, and obviously you put some time into it, and it would be a shame if people didnt read it becuase it lacked spacing. :)

Interesting idea, although I cant say I agree with it. One reason, as you mentioned is the abundace of cheaters that would arise. A point you may be missing here is that while competition is within all of us, not all of us would have an urge to compete in all areas, or even any. This would turn moe off to learning if I was in high school. Infact when I was in seventh grade, at one point I have straight Fs on a report card. I wasnt lazy, and I wasnt stupid. I aced tests and refused to do busy work. Another thing is that having hyper competitive children seems like a step in the wrong direction to me. Not that I want apathetic kids, I just dont think children more focused on winning than actually learning is a much better alternative. I think school should focus on instilling a love of learning in kids. Memorizing facts is stupid when they have google. Thats not a joke, Google exists, if they are going to need to retrieve some arcane fact, they have google. Instead of having them memorize facts, teach them everything you can possibly know about google. And believe me, there is ALOT of hidden features in google.

 

I agree with the statement about the lack of urge to compete (hence kids not participating in P.E.) but the majority of people wouldnt want to do the things they like if they had to or if the benefits of what they were doing good or bad are takin away(Social Psychology of Modern Life by Steuart Henderson Britt).Quik lil tangent here but i once had a conversation with a psycologists friend of mine who said when he was a kid there were these boys who would follow him home and make fun of him everyday, so one day he said he decides to start paying the boys. He started with 3 dimes, of course the boys were astounded that hes paying them to do this. He said it went on for about 2 weeks then he said he stopped paying them, the boys disappointed with there lack of funds to aid there tomfoolery, ceased there daily verbal attack. But as in most mammals i have observed kids like to have fun, so what happens is during your elementary school years they incorporate fun games and activities into your everyday learning enviroment because they know they will love to learn because of the fun associated with it( and you cant sit there and tell me you dont remember elementary school being bonkers). They also kno that they dont know what they kno, meaning subconciously these kids are absorbing all this information because they see the benefits they get from it(recess, snack time,treats(prizes) etc) totallly oblivious to what the grand scheme of what it all truely is. So what happens is you hit 6th grade and your 1st day your wonderin when recess is, and the teachers like "This is middle school there is no recess and its time to grow up" so your really pissed and disappointed because all the things you associated with how school is/should be are no longer there, which leaves you in a state of, for lack of a much better word, W-T-F**kness. And just like you said you can do the work you know the answers but you dont want to do the work because the mask of "fun" has been removed from the system and now is perceived as "busy work". Granted there preparing you for the real world(becuz lets face it life doesnt have door prices) but even big business's have started implicating "nap times" spa passes and all kinds of assorted amenities to keep there employees happy and still wanting to come back for more, cuz apparently the all might dollar isnt worth it anymore. So obvioulsy im not to far off and if they were to vitalize these practices in 6-12 the fire burning within you to learn would still burn bright. Although some people like me never stop asking the 5 W's, that added competitive touch throughout k-12 and beyond would make learning a little more adequate. And as for google i agree its one of the best tool for knowledge research since the internet itself. But if you were to have Google 101 you'd definately have to add Research 101 to the curriculum, and teach them "I wouldn't ever want people to believe something they read online from anyonre (or offline) without doing some critical thinking of their own", and lots of follow up research. But even then i find myself getting lazy becuz anything i need to know i just hit my home button and poof evrything i need, and i dont retain the knowledge i feel i should becuz i always have my references to my side for any quick inquries, but like Einstein said " Imagination is more important than knowledge," and just becuz i may not know it off hand, i know where i can find it, so i understand your google theory. 

 

I don't think much about my physical self, my appearance what I wear, my environment, I put more of my energy into helping others, or thinking about ideas involving philosophy and politics and more. I have noticed on the chess board my king is just a nuisance the way my physical body is in real life. I neglect my king and lose early on sometimes, but this is something I am working on, and I think I should work on this in my life as well.

 

I reread that statement and was thinking ok maybe he meant his body is a nuisance in spiritual terms, which i would totally agree, because of the fact that our body needs sleep, thats 8 hours out of the day which are wasted when they could be used for something productive! But your follow up sentence doesnt match that, you appear to be saying you neglect the king and lose early, which to me means you neglect yourself and worry about others to much and end up getting hurt. And i guess when you said "I don't think much about my physical self, my appearance what I wear, my environment," i mistook it as you dont think much of that as in your not satisfied, but you apparently meant you literally dont think about that stuff...my bad. As for the rest of the stuff you pretty much confirmed what i had to say and as for my non use of paragraphs its a reflection of myself and how i think/talk, i have alot of energy and when its on a roll its on a roll i dont have time to stop and seperate thoughts, it just all comes out in one big thought and is then very hard to make paragraphs out of simply because it wouldnt be the same,i dont think. besides  the only access i have to a comp is when im at work so i do all this during my lunch break.

 

The google theory is that kids should learn principles and ideas and theories. Like why slavery was bad and why lincoln abolished it, but not the dates of those things. I mean tell them, and make sure they know approximately when it occurred. But that can be googled. if a situation comes up, if you dont know about a concept or idea you wont know to google it. unlike a date or time in most cases.

And yes google 101 would really be research 101, and kids would learn the best tools to research, and learn about fallacies and learn about how to verify information and what to trust as a source and not, and learn about biases, etc.

Are you really saying use google instead of real education? If someone is driven to use google for information then why educate them at all?

As for your analogy, dates are extremely important. So just knowing about when it happened doesnt cut it. Your setting yourself up for failure if you plan on living in educated society instead of flipping burgers.

Without dates in 100 years were going to have a million kids walking around thinking dinosaurs walked the earth when lincoln was president. Perhaps not paying attention and getting Fs WAS your downfall, your just filling in spaces that you created with some messed up educational theory you fantasized about while playing chess, you relate your life to that and come to the conclusion learning principles is more important than facts.

Heres another one for you. Do you want to goto a Doctor for an operation or a Plumber? Because one will generally use more facts than the other to get the job done. The principle behind fixing internal bleeding is not much different than fixing a leaky faucet.. So again, who is your surgeon?

Still not convinced? The principle behind throwing a punch is no different from your average person and the worlds best boxer. So what makes the difference here? A boxer relies on tried and true FACTS, your average person just knows I CLUB WITH HAND ... MEE HURT YOU!

Try having a conversation without relying on google. Sounds like you spend so much time talking on a computer where you can type in google.com that youve created a crutch. A crutch that wont hold you up in reality. Maybe when you have 2 weeks for a 9th grade report, but not when your trying to converse with an educated adult. Sort of like those people who cant play scrabble without a dictionary.

yea!...what he said.

"Are you really saying use google instead of real education? If someone is driven to use google for information then why educate them at all?"

No. You misinterpreted my suggestion, Im not going to respond right now, but I promse I will. Its getting A little off topic, but Ill try to sum everything up in one post.

 Faded XIII wrote:

Are you really saying use google instead of real education? If someone is driven to use google for information then why educate them at all?

Absolutely not. I am saying that learning how to find accurate information on your own should be made into a class. This is a complex subject worthy of a class. Every human has biases. Every orgnaization has biases. Every human in those orgnizations has biases. So all information put out by anyone is likely to have biases and inconsistencies. One small part of the class would be identifying biases. Another small section would be learning about fallacies, what they are, what they mean, why they are important. Another part would be learning about finding out information from a public library. Other real world sources as well. This stuff is already taught in schools, but needs to be taught far more throughly.

I could go in to more detail, but you get the basic idea hopefully.

The second part of what I am suggesting is that some information we teach to HIGH SCHOOL and MIDDLE SCHOOL and ELEMENTARY SCHOOL students is unnecessary. They may not be ever going into that field of study, so that information should not be tested on. What is the date of Abraham Lincoln's birth? I dont know. But give me 30 seconds and I can tell you. That sort of information can be mentioned in class, and should be mentioned. However, I dont believe those sorts of dates need to be on tests at a middle and high school level.

 Faded XIII wrote:

As for your analogy, dates are extremely important. So just knowing about when it happened doesnt cut it. Your setting yourself up for failure if you plan on living in educated society instead of flipping burgers.

 Dates are not extremely important with my analogy. And no need to insult me (even if its vieled as a warning).

 Faded XIII wrote:

Without dates in 100 years were going to have a million kids walking around thinking dinosaurs walked the earth when lincoln was president. Perhaps not paying attention and getting Fs WAS your downfall, your just filling in spaces that you created with some messed up educational theory you fantasized about while playing chess, you relate your life to that and come to the conclusion learning principles is more important than facts.

Incorrect. I suggested that precise dates be mentioned in class but not be tested on. The children should be tested an approximate dates, and sequences of events in history. This is a generalization. Certain dates should be known precisely, dates that affect us often, and knowing the precise date is useful. Take for example, holidays. But even so, memorizing that information becomes less and less important as computing technology expands. I rarely played chess in highschool. Again with the insulting?

I dont believe I ever said learning principles is more important that learning facts. Some facts are more important to learn than some principles. You can not say one group is more important that the other, it comes down to each individual one. I will say that I believe that often there is too strong of an emphasis on  unimportant facts and busy work in high/middle/elementary schools, and less of an emphasis on things such as principles, varying moral standpoints and

 Faded XIII wrote:

Heres another one for you. Do you want to goto a Doctor for an operation or a Plumber? Because one will generally use more facts than the other to get the job done. The principle behind fixing internal bleeding is not much different than fixing a leaky faucet.. So again, who is your surgeon?

Unnaplicaple to my idea. I am referring to highschool students and below. I would want the surgeon that had specified schooling where he or she learned about surgery, and even took part in surgeries. I would want a plumber that had specialized schooling as well, and/or alternatively much on hand experience. But I dont think plumbing or how to perform surgeries should be taught in highschool.

 Faded XIII wrote:

Still not convinced? The principle behind throwing a punch is no different from your average person and the worlds best boxer. So what makes the difference here? A boxer relies on tried and true FACTS, your average person just knows I CLUB WITH HAND ... MEE HURT YOU!

I dont think serious boxing should be taught in a highschool setting. But yes, to be a great boxer you are going to need a lot of training beyond what you get in highschool.

 Faded XIII wrote:

Try having a conversation without relying on google. Sounds like you spend so much time talking on a computer where you can type in google.com that youve created a crutch. A crutch that wont hold you up in reality. Maybe when you have 2 weeks for a 9th grade report, but not when your trying to converse with an educated adult. Sort of like those people who cant play scrabble without a dictionary.

When I have a conversation in a real world setting I am glad I know about concepts and principles more than specific names and dates. I would feel like a pompous *** spouting out some trivia fact such as "The Buddha was born in 605 BC" when instead I can discuss the much more important aspects of the Buddha's life, such as his contributions to philosophy and spirituality.

It appears your previous quote that when you read through my posts you feel I'm am somewhat illiterate and/or incapable of holding a intelligent conversation without my google crutch. As far as I can remember I havent once used google for anything I have written in this thread. So tell me, do you feel that I am capable of holding my own in a intelligent conversation with someone who can play scrabble without a dictionary?

Also, as technology increases it will be easier and easier to to access information through online sources. Already it can be accessed on a cellphone. Give it fifteen years.

oooooooooooo you taught him!

Lol. Im not trying to win an argument here. Just defending my statement and have a discussion. I think its best to first try to fully understand where the other person is coming from before disagreeing.

In a discussion I always try to assume the other person is correct and not me. I try to find a way that what they are saying is correct, or makes sense.  I find I learn far more quickly that way. :D

He made two incorrect assumptions about my posts - one that I meant beyond highschool (I do slightly, but mostly in highschools and lower) andthat I meant mainly teaching about google. Those were very understandable because I was not very clear on either of those points.

lol nah i kno, my brains in hibernation mode i felt like being funny rather than philosophical, but i understand i myself look at every point of view or atleast try and put myself in there thinking to truelly understand and learn from whatevr they may be saying, right or wrong, its always good to look at things in adifferent sense rather than viciously attack someones demeanor proving your an ***.

Nice post.

 AlienDjinn wrote:

Hi ResolvedAce,

You're sure right about the teaching you patience part.

Nice essay!

-AlienDjinn

I guess reading the entire post was the first step to gaining such ability?

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