PacoDG wrote:

 sPeKuLysT wrote:

Its just pointless to discuss this anymore...nobody knows exactly whats on every game disc they buy...most people dont even try to find out...you just put the disc in and you play the game...you get some enjoyment out of it...somebody leaked this insignificant tidbit of information about the reelmaker and like 13 people are up in arms about it...life goes on...go ahead and spend $100 on a capture card and some video editing software and you can do the same thing as reelmaker can do for $5...happy highlight making!

It's okay to pretend you don't understand or care for what is happening, doesn't mean you have to bring others down with you.

It seems there are more than 13 people up in arms about this.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Here.

Figured id at least bring this to the attention of the people interested in this game enough to check these forums, just because you got ripped off, doesn't mean everyone has to, stop being bitter.

Thanks for the links, and I admit I was wrong...Its about 50 people tops...

In the first link most of the people who commented took my side...
The second post was a different argument (they questioned whether or not it was on the disc at all).
The third one was your best argument but many had the same view as I did on there as well.
The forth was apparently a list of post and the relevant one is no longer on the list...

You made me feel a little better about my side of this discussion...Catch ya later...

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www.eatthinkgame.com

 sPeKuLysT wrote:

^^^
In my opinion they are just rapist too...And that was kinda my point from the start...There is nothing you can do about it accept complain...and complaining is just a waste of words, time, and energy that doesnt effect anything in a positive way...

As long as people are aware of what they are buying, I can sleep better at night, so no waste of time and energy from me (energy = typing in my boxers).

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The Bender on iTunes

What about alternate uniforms and stadiums from Madden, should they not be included in the game? 

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"I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way." - Mark Twain

WWFSMD

PacoDG - You are a moron.

Like any consumer, I wish that all of the downloadable content was either free or already accessible on the disk when I buy the game.  For example, I play Dead Rising and they have downloadable "keys" that lets you change into different outfits.  These downloads are free. 

I don't own 2k8 yet (getting today), but I already know going into it what is and is not included in the game.  This helps me decide if the cost is worth the game.  For example, I did not buy the game at $60, I waited until $30 because it wasn't worth it to me at $60.  Now, I can say, if I want the game and the downloadable features, the game costs $35.  Now, the question is do I feel like it is worth it to me.

Look at it another way, if some company tried to sell you Pong for the 360 without any update or anything -- still the 1970s version -- would you pay $60?  No way.  How about $5?  Maybe, but still doubtful.  However, if they said, okay, we are going to sell you the basic game for $5, but if you download some update that unlock things on the disk, you can also play Halo 3.  The downloadble keys will cost you $50 on Microsoft Live.  Now, all of a sudden, it might be worth it to you.  Does that mean that they should have given you Halo 3 for $5 just because it was already on the disk?  I don't think so. 

Here's another example.  I have basic cable (none of the premium channels).  When I go to the HBO stations, it is blocked but I am told that for a little extra I can get that option.  The feed is already coming to my house, all that needs be done is the cable company needs to flip a switch and I get it (much like having to download an unlock key).  Does that mean that I should get it for free becuase it is already there?  Of course not.

As a consumer, you want to get as much as you can for your money.  As a seller, the distributers want to give you as little as possible for your money.  The genius of capitalism is that a consumer and a seller meet somewhere in the middle, when the consumer gets enough for their money and the seller doesn't part with as much. 

I guess the big question is, Paco, would you be willing to pay $65 instead of $60 for a new game with all of the keys unlocked?  If not, then the cost/benefit analysis favors you not buying the game.  If you do, then you buy it.

Well I guess it'll be interesting to know that the reelmaker feature that is causing such an uproar in this game seems like it will be free for now on for future 2K games. NBA 2K8 has Reelmaker included now.

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Hail To The King Baby

 Skipius wrote:

Like any consumer, I wish that all of the downloadable content was either free or already accessible on the disk when I buy the game.  For example, I play Dead Rising and they have downloadable "keys" that lets you change into different outfits.  These downloads are free. 

I don't own 2k8 yet (getting today), but I already know going into it what is and is not included in the game.  This helps me decide if the cost is worth the game.  For example, I did not buy the game at $60, I waited until $30 because it wasn't worth it to me at $60.  Now, I can say, if I want the game and the downloadable features, the game costs $35.  Now, the question is do I feel like it is worth it to me.

Look at it another way, if some company tried to sell you Pong for the 360 without any update or anything -- still the 1970s version -- would you pay $60?  No way.  How about $5?  Maybe, but still doubtful.  However, if they said, okay, we are going to sell you the basic game for $5, but if you download some update that unlock things on the disk, you can also play Halo 3.  The downloadble keys will cost you $50 on Microsoft Live.  Now, all of a sudden, it might be worth it to you.  Does that mean that they should have given you Halo 3 for $5 just because it was already on the disk?  I don't think so. 

Here's another example.  I have basic cable (none of the premium channels).  When I go to the HBO stations, it is blocked but I am told that for a little extra I can get that option.  The feed is already coming to my house, all that needs be done is the cable company needs to flip a switch and I get it (much like having to download an unlock key).  Does that mean that I should get it for free becuase it is already there?  Of course not.

As a consumer, you want to get as much as you can for your money.  As a seller, the distributers want to give you as little as possible for your money.  The genius of capitalism is that a consumer and a seller meet somewhere in the middle, when the consumer gets enough for their money and the seller doesn't part with as much. 

I guess the big question is, Paco, would you be willing to pay $65 instead of $60 for a new game with all of the keys unlocked?  If not, then the cost/benefit analysis favors you not buying the game.  If you do, then you buy it.

I see your point (God bless intelligent people who can't back up their points), however, that isn't the case of the "Unlock Key" situation, they do not sell it to you as though you are getting an unlock key, they are selling it to you as though you are downloading a feature, which is not the case, it is the definition of false advertising, no?

Also, something interesting to note, not all companies flat out lie to you, in fact, that RPG, Eternal Sonata, had something on the marketplace, that was an "Unlock Key", only 108kb download, HOWEVER, they put an accurate description so you knew what you were buying:

Eternal Sonata

- from http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2007/09/19/marketplace-roundup-for-september-19-2007.aspx

On that same day (and same link above actually) you can see this:

NHL 2K8

Disappointing, for $10 you can get this new "Add On" ..which we all know is already on the disc :( ..

However, good for 2K for making this feature free, as it was BS they were making people pay for it.  Last note for the 'haters' that don't seem to understand what the discussion is about:

You don't buy a car that has air conditioning put in it already, however, if you want to use that air, you have to pay an extra fee.

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The Bender on iTunes

 PacoDG wrote:

I see your point (God bless intelligent people who can't back up their points), however, that isn't the case of the "Unlock Key" situation, they do not sell it to you as though you are getting an unlock key, they are selling it to you as though you are downloading a feature, which is not the case, it is the definition of false advertising, no?

Also, something interesting to note, not all companies flat out lie to you, in fact, that RPG, Eternal Sonata, had something on the marketplace, that was an "Unlock Key", only 108kb download, HOWEVER, they put an accurate description so you knew what you were buying:

Eternal Sonata

Content: Piano Music Key
Price: 80 Microsoft Points
Availability: Only in Canada, United States
Dash Text: [ESRB: T (Teen) FANTASY VIOLENCE,MILD LANGUAGE,USE OF ALCOHOL] Don't want to play through the entire game to get the music? Download this key to unlock all the Chopin piano pieces in the game. Note: All music that can be unlocked by this key can also be unlocked by progressing the game. There are no refunds for this item. For more information, see www.xbox.com/live/accounts.

- from http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2007/09/19/marketplace-roundup-for-september-19-2007.aspx

On that same day (and same link above actually) you can see this:

NHL 2K8

Content: 2K Reelmaker for NHL 2K8
Price: 400 Microsoft Points
Availability: Only in Canada, United States
Dash Text: [ESRB: E10+ (Everyone 10+) MILD VIOLENCE] Get the new add-on for NHL 2K8. The 2K Reelmaker allows you to create your own NHL 2K8 highlight reels or watch and vote on those created by others. GET 2K REELMAKER NOW! There are no refunds for this item. For more information, see www.xbox.com/live/accounts.

Disappointing, for $10 you can get this new "Add On" ..which we all know is already on the disc :( ..

However, good for 2K for making this feature free, as it was BS they were making people pay for it.  Last note for the 'haters' that don't seem to understand what the discussion is about:

You don't buy a car that has air conditioning put in it already, however, if you want to use that air, you have to pay an extra fee.

First, not sure if that "not backing up their point" comment was aimed at me.  However, since personal attacks are the sign of a weak argument proffered by an unintelligent person, I am going to assume that you were not attacking me since I will not assume that you are unintelligent.

Anyway, I understand your argument a little better now.  I agree that the "sales pitch" on Microsoft Live should make a little clearer that you are just unlocking an already included feature.  However, by doing this, the company would likely have to charge less money for it (compare the 80 to 400 Microsoft Points listed above).

However, I still disagree with your basic premise that if something is possible in an item you purchase, that you should automatically get that when you buy the item.  It is your job, as a consumer, to deterime what you will and will not be getting before purchasing an item.  If there is a feature that is not included, don't buy it.  When you decide to lay down your money, you are essentially saying that what you are being offered with worth the cost.

If, for example, there were all of these "unlocks" on a disk that you bought but you never learned about them.  You would not have an issue with that because you would have gotten what you have paid for.  Here, if you pay the $30 APF now costs, you will be getting what the box says you are getting.  If, however, you want additional features, that will cost you $35.  The mere fact that it is easily unlocked because it is already on the disk should be of no consequence. 

The reason many people, including myself, have been disappointed with Microsoft is that their XBox consoles are failing, essentially meaning that we did not get what we paid for.  That argument I can support.

 Skipius wrote:

First, not sure if that "not backing up their point" comment was aimed at me.  However, since personal attacks are the sign of a weak argument proffered by an unintelligent person, I am going to assume that you were not attacking me since I will not assume that you are unintelligent.

Anyway, I understand your argument a little better now.  I agree that the "sales pitch" on Microsoft Live should make a little clearer that you are just unlocking an already included feature.  However, by doing this, the company would likely have to charge less money for it (compare the 80 to 400 Microsoft Points listed above).

However, I still disagree with your basic premise that if something is possible in an item you purchase, that you should automatically get that when you buy the item.  It is your job, as a consumer, to deterime what you will and will not be getting before purchasing an item.  If there is a feature that is not included, don't buy it.  When you decide to lay down your money, you are essentially saying that what you are being offered with worth the cost.

If, for example, there were all of these "unlocks" on a disk that you bought but you never learned about them.  You would not have an issue with that because you would have gotten what you have paid for.  Here, if you pay the $30 APF now costs, you will be getting what the box says you are getting.  If, however, you want additional features, that will cost you $35.  The mere fact that it is easily unlocked because it is already on the disk should be of no consequence.

That first part of my long rantings was definitely not aimed at you, just the people who come in not reading fully the first post so don't understand that they are being sold a lie, so come into this thread, throw in one line about "you are a retard" or the like, and just have no content to their posts, unlike yours.

You are right about if they said it was an unlock key, it wouldn't sell as more, so they charge more...... now how does that make it okay?    And no matter how you answer that question, why would you feel its okay to support a company that would do that or defend them?

You say, "It is your job, as a consumer, to deterime what you will and will not be getting before purchasing an item," .. but you can only do that based on what the person who is selling whatever item, is telling you.   No one knew they were being ripped off beforehand, now we do, its been exposed that they are selling an unlock key. According to another poster saying NBA 2K8 has reelmaker included, even 2KSports must have known they were doing wrong if they are now just having this feature unlocked already for free instead of charging for it.

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The Bender on iTunes