Why is the typical response its not MS prob mute them...Im not violating TOS and i have to be punished because of the ignorant racist immature people...uh no its them who need to be muted...

I have to respectfully disagree. When u subscribe to Xbox Live you agree to its terms of service and usage. I know that no one actually reads it, but if you do you will find that this type of behavior is explicitly prohibited. Therefore when you violate it you are in breach of contract and can be terminated at any time at the owner's discretion.

---

Chill Will

I know how you feel, I am 13 and also go on these forums because of the maturity. (on-topic)but I am the only person in school who says sir, or ma'am in my sentences. and people have an increased need to be mean, they take their time to go out of the way to hurt someone.

---

Sorry Folks, its the truth.

 krmibew wrote:

u have the option to turn off the sound and the mic.  freedom of speach is all i can say...there is no law against saying an opinion about someone...only a threat can really be deemed harmful...and even then nothing can be done...if you dont like it, either dont join the live games, or turn your mic and sound off.

Freedom of speech is one thing, total stupidity and lack of common courtesy is another. I, for one, am tired of all the negativity that comes out during gaming sessions. I usually play with just a close groups of friends but we do like to go out and challenge others every now and then. Most of my "clique" are christian but a few of them are not. The ones that aren't show respect towards us that are christians by keeping the cursing to a minimum or not even cursing at all. Now just because I am a christian doesn't mean I expect this type of treatment from everyone, I know it is never gonna happen and I am fine with that. I work in a college and hear and see some pretty offensive things on a daily basis. I've become imune to it all and I can just block it out so its no big deal to me, I'm not gonna insist people stop because I don't have the right to do that.

Just don't join live games or don't turn my mic off? Why should people do that in order to avoid the undesirable behavior? They have just as much right to play, speak, and enjoy their online experience just as much as the ones that are ruining it. The only thing I would like to see, and there may already be something like this out there already, is to have different gaming zones for adults, christians, teenagers, etc.. If there were groups like this you could join the appropriate one for your personal tastes and know that you will be with like minded people. Channels could be moderated by the community and if inappropriate behavior occurred then the offending party could be kicked from the channel.

  

 

 ShaneB39 wrote:

 krmibew wrote:

u have the option to turn off the sound and the mic.  freedom of speach is all i can say...there is no law against saying an opinion about someone...only a threat can really be deemed harmful...and even then nothing can be done...if you dont like it, either dont join the live games, or turn your mic and sound off.

Freedom of speech is one thing, total stupidity and lack of common courtesy is another. I, for one, am tired of all the negativity that comes out during gaming sessions. I usually play with just a close groups of friends but we do like to go out and challenge others every now and then. Most of my "clique" are christian but a few of them are not. The ones that aren't show respect towards us that are christians by keeping the cursing to a minimum or not even cursing at all. Now just because I am a christian doesn't mean I expect this type of treatment from everyone, I know it is never gonna happen and I am fine with that. I work in a college and hear and see some pretty offensive things on a daily basis. I've become imune to it all and I can just block it out so its no big deal to me, I'm not gonna insist people stop because I don't have the right to do that.

Just don't join live games or don't turn my mic off? Why should people do that in order to avoid the undesirable behavior? They have just as much right to play, speak, and enjoy their online experience just as much as the ones that are ruining it. The only thing I would like to see, and there may already be something like this out there already, is to have different gaming zones for adults, christians, teenagers, etc.. If there were groups like this you could join the appropriate one for your personal tastes and know that you will be with like minded people. Channels could be moderated by the community and if inappropriate behavior occurred then the offending party could be kicked from the channel.

  

 

Trust me they are not going to do more about the issue.  I have pleaded my case and gotten the classic brushoff. Your only recourse is to call them, email them, join groups that will let them know the status quo is unacceptable.  The be quiet on this is to be a part of the problem.  Less debate on GS and trivial matters would be a good start.

 In regards to Freedom of Speech: I suggest that anyone who hides behind it, understand it first. 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

When did MS or anyone on Live become Congress?

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

 Nien Numb wrote:

In regards to Freedom of Speech: I suggest that anyone who hides behind it, understand it first. 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

When did MS or anyone on Live become Congress?

In 1776. Same as the rest of America.

Hurt feelings are no reason to deprive a fellow human being of his or her right to speak in public.

Yes, I know. Some of us like to say stupid ***. That only gives the best of us an exercise in becoming stronger.

Personally, I haven't played on Live for several months now. I find that the trash talk tends to bring out the worst in me.

That doesn't give me the right to silence the voices of my fellow players, however.

The younger kids that use this system need to develop themselves emotionally. They need to form a mental armor against the insults that this world is bound to throw at them, sooner or later.

Better they learn online than on a schoolyard.

 

---

AKA lingeredshade
SvR 2010 keyword: iron mask

Microsoft has given you all the tools you need it is your responsibility to use them.  It is not your, nor their job to be someone's parents.  If someone is offensive, mute them and report them.  If more people feel the same way as you then Microsoft will deny them access via their terms of service.  It is set up this way to be fair to the most amount of people.  It takes multiple complaints against someone before they will act.  Otherwise you could have some snotnosed runt filing complaints against any and everyone that beats him in a game.

You cannot censor people and neither can Microsoft.  However, just like a bouncer, they will ask the unruly patron to leave if given enough reason to do so.    

 Sir Legendhead wrote:

 Nien Numb wrote:

In regards to Freedom of Speech: I suggest that anyone who hides behind it, understand it first. 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

When did MS or anyone on Live become Congress?

In 1776. Same as the rest of America.

If that is the case and you are part of Congress, can you please vote against the bailout?   Oh wait, you can't... Thanks...

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

Microsoft has given you all the tools you need it is your responsibility to use them.  It is not your, nor their job to be someone's parents.  If someone is offensive, mute them and report them.  If more people feel the same way as you then Microsoft will deny them access via their terms of service.  It is set up this way to be fair to the most amount of people.  It takes multiple complaints against someone before they will act.  Otherwise you could have some snotnosed runt filing complaints against any and everyone that beats him in a game.

You cannot censor people and neither can Microsoft.  However, just like a bouncer, they will ask the unruly patron to leave if given enough reason to do so.    

Actually people can be censored when they are in a private setting.  The tools don't work because most people that are offended they unplug the headset or mute, as they are instructed.   If you are playing with a friend who is offended as you are and you both compain it gets tossed due to potential cyber bullying.  There are numerous flaws to the system.  The system should be service provided, we should have not to pay to be watchdogs.

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

I read thread, become saddened.  I played gold for while on Halo.  Thought pretty good at game, however english language barrier bad.  I speak with heavy indian accent, and sometimes when excite, even speak native tongue.  Kids poke fun toward, and make think that not place for man like me.  So let expire at end of time period.  Thinking about upgrade soon, but this bring it to front of mind. 

---

- With most utmost and gracious of respectfulness, Sanka.
- SITAR MUSIK + BEER = HAPPINESS

 Nien Numb wrote:

 Sir Legendhead wrote:

 Nien Numb wrote:

In regards to Freedom of Speech: I suggest that anyone who hides behind it, understand it first. 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

When did MS or anyone on Live become Congress?

In 1776. Same as the rest of America.

If that is the case and you are part of Congress, can you please vote against the bailout?   Oh wait, you can't... Thanks...

Your opinion of my statement would mean something to me if I had some sign that you were capable of comprehending it in its entirety.

Unfortunately, you have failed. I look forward to hearing you complain about how children own your mind on the internet in the future.

Good day to you, Ma'am.

---

AKA lingeredshade
SvR 2010 keyword: iron mask

 bumbozo wrote:

I read thread, become saddened.  I played gold for while on Halo.  Thought pretty good at game, however english language barrier bad.  I speak with heavy indian accent, and sometimes when excite, even speak native tongue.  Kids poke fun toward, and make think that not place for man like me.  So let expire at end of time period.  Thinking about upgrade soon, but this bring it to front of mind. 

Damn, that sucks...

Don't take it personally. We all talk that way to each other in America. It's not just you.

---

AKA lingeredshade
SvR 2010 keyword: iron mask

No I read your statement in its entirety, and it has some merits.  Kids do need to learn how to deal with insults and the like.  The problem is those same kids are learning they can say what they want and for the most part have no consequences.  You and I both know that is not the case in the real world.  My problem was people misuse the 1st amendment all the time and when you did again it teed me off.  I will refrain from simple insults such as referring to you as a woman and say we will agree to disagree. 

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

 Nien Numb wrote:

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

Microsoft has given you all the tools you need it is your responsibility to use them.  It is not your, nor their job to be someone's parents.  If someone is offensive, mute them and report them.  If more people feel the same way as you then Microsoft will deny them access via their terms of service.  It is set up this way to be fair to the most amount of people.  It takes multiple complaints against someone before they will act.  Otherwise you could have some snotnosed runt filing complaints against any and everyone that beats him in a game.

You cannot censor people and neither can Microsoft.  However, just like a bouncer, they will ask the unruly patron to leave if given enough reason to do so.    

Actually people can be censored when they are in a private setting.  The tools don't work because most people that are offended they unplug the headset or mute, as they are instructed.   If you are playing with a friend who is offended as you are and you both compain it gets tossed due to potential cyber bullying.  There are numerous flaws to the system.  The system should be service provided, we should have not to pay to be watchdogs.

There is a huge difference between censoring someone and simply ignoring them.  Users just need to learn what their role in the bigger picture is.  It takes more than two complaints to boot somebody, they have to be a proven nuisance.  Not everyone is going to share your viewpoints of what is and isn't acceptable behaviour.  You have plenty of options at your disposal to avoid people from muting/avoiding the player, to growing a healthy friends list and partying up with people you do enjoy playing with.  The OP's original problem is easily solved by making a call for a waaaaaahmbulance.  It is a statement against society as a whole and as I said, it isn't microsoft's responsibility to parent all the misbehaving children out there.

 Sir Legendhead wrote:

 bumbozo wrote:

I read thread, become saddened.  I played gold for while on Halo.  Thought pretty good at game, however english language barrier bad.  I speak with heavy indian accent, and sometimes when excite, even speak native tongue.  Kids poke fun toward, and make think that not place for man like me.  So let expire at end of time period.  Thinking about upgrade soon, but this bring it to front of mind. 

Damn, that sucks...

Don't take it personally. We all talk that way to each other in America. It's not just you.

See the problem is how do you not take it personally?  They are attacking who he or she is.  And when we start accepting that as how it is we are actually going against the ideals that formed this country.  Bumbozo, I would saty you should give it another shot but look for a group of adult gamers who share your desire to game and not be sterotyped.  There are numerous ones throughout the threads in this section.

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

 Nien Numb wrote:

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

Microsoft has given you all the tools you need it is your responsibility to use them.  It is not your, nor their job to be someone's parents.  If someone is offensive, mute them and report them.  If more people feel the same way as you then Microsoft will deny them access via their terms of service.  It is set up this way to be fair to the most amount of people.  It takes multiple complaints against someone before they will act.  Otherwise you could have some snotnosed runt filing complaints against any and everyone that beats him in a game.

You cannot censor people and neither can Microsoft.  However, just like a bouncer, they will ask the unruly patron to leave if given enough reason to do so.    

Actually people can be censored when they are in a private setting.  The tools don't work because most people that are offended they unplug the headset or mute, as they are instructed.   If you are playing with a friend who is offended as you are and you both compain it gets tossed due to potential cyber bullying.  There are numerous flaws to the system.  The system should be service provided, we should have not to pay to be watchdogs.

There is a huge difference between censoring someone and simply ignoring them.  Users just need to learn what their role in the bigger picture is.  It takes more than two complaints to boot somebody, they have to be a proven nuisance.  Not everyone is going to share your viewpoints of what is and isn't acceptable behaviour.  You have plenty of options at your disposal to avoid people from muting/avoiding the player, to growing a healthy friends list and partying up with people you do enjoy playing with.  The OP's original problem is easily solved by making a call for a waaaaaahmbulance.  It is a statement against society as a whole and as I said, it isn't microsoft's responsibility to parent all the misbehaving children out there.

The thing is MS set up a list of things that are unacceptable in the TOS and then don't follow through and do anything about them.  I would have a hard time complaining if when I signed up I didn't see this and sign off on it:

Your use of the Service is subject to the Code of Conduct. You also agree not to do any of the following while being connected to the Service:
-Defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten, or otherwise violate the legal rights (such as rights of privacy and publicity) of others.

Calling someone a name based on their race or gender hits 1-3 on the list.  Why even bother putting it there besides a CYA to prevent lawsuits...ahhh crud, I just answered my own question.

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

 Nien Numb wrote:

No I read your statement in its entirety, and it has some merits.  Kids do need to learn how to deal with insults and the like.  The problem is those same kids are learning they can say what they want and for the most part have no consequences.  You and I both know that is not the case in the real world.  My problem was people misuse the 1st amendment all the time and when you did again it teed me off.  I will refrain from simple insults such as referring to you as a woman and say we will agree to disagree. 

If the kids say hurtful things to each other on the forums, then the best way for them to learn is for somebody to speak back.

These kids can learn from each other better than they can learn from us.

Simply erasing what they say solves nothing. They're not going to learn anything that way.

 

 

---

AKA lingeredshade
SvR 2010 keyword: iron mask

 Sir Legendhead wrote:

 Nien Numb wrote:

No I read your statement in its entirety, and it has some merits.  Kids do need to learn how to deal with insults and the like.  The problem is those same kids are learning they can say what they want and for the most part have no consequences.  You and I both know that is not the case in the real world.  My problem was people misuse the 1st amendment all the time and when you did again it teed me off.  I will refrain from simple insults such as referring to you as a woman and say we will agree to disagree. 

If the kids say hurtful things to each other on the forums, then the best way for them to learn is for somebody to speak back.

These kids can learn from each other better than they can learn from us.

Simply erasing what they say solves nothing. They're not going to learn anything that way.

 

 

I am less concerned about the forums and more about the stuff on Live...I think the most important thing you can teach kids is that every action has a consequence; good or bad.  By ignoring the actions on LIve we are failing them and it costs everyone in the end.

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

 Nien Numb wrote:

 Sir Legendhead wrote:

 bumbozo wrote:

I read thread, become saddened.  I played gold for while on Halo.  Thought pretty good at game, however english language barrier bad.  I speak with heavy indian accent, and sometimes when excite, even speak native tongue.  Kids poke fun toward, and make think that not place for man like me.  So let expire at end of time period.  Thinking about upgrade soon, but this bring it to front of mind. 

Damn, that sucks...

Don't take it personally. We all talk that way to each other in America. It's not just you.

See the problem is how do you not take it personally?  They are attacking who he or she is.  And when we start accepting that as how it is we are actually going against the ideals that formed this country.  Bumbozo, I would saty you should give it another shot but look for a group of adult gamers who share your desire to game and not be sterotyped.  There are numerous ones throughout the threads in this section.

You don't take it personally because you're a grown man, and you're dealing with a subcategory of the internet that's made up of mostly children.

---

AKA lingeredshade
SvR 2010 keyword: iron mask

You are speaking like someone who has lived his life in the majority.  To be judged by who you are, how you were born...it is a deeply personal thing.  And the bigotry on Live is not something that is exclusive to kids...

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

 Nien Numb wrote:

I am less concerned about the forums and more about the stuff on Live...I think the most important thing you can teach kids is that every action has a consequence; good or bad.  By ignoring the actions on LIve we are failing them and it costs everyone in the end.

I agree with you about consequences. The difference seems to be that I think kids learn consequences from other kids better than they learn from their parents.

Parents hold back. Other kids don't. I know it sounds brutal of me to say this, but the kids learn things from each other that older people like us aren't able or willing to teach them.

Sorry about the lady comment, by the way. It's amazing what an old guy like me can pick up from the kids these days.

---

AKA lingeredshade
SvR 2010 keyword: iron mask

 Nien Numb wrote:

  
The thing is MS set up a list of things that are unacceptable in the TOS and then don't follow through and do anything about them.  I would have a hard time complaining if when I signed up I didn't see this and sign off on it:

Your use of the Service is subject to the Code of Conduct. You also agree not to do any of the following while being connected to the Service:
-Defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten, or otherwise violate the legal rights (such as rights of privacy and publicity) of others.

Calling someone a name based on their race or gender hits 1-3 on the list.  Why even bother putting it there besides a CYA to prevent lawsuits...ahhh crud, I just answered my own question.

That's why they are able to boot players without falling subject to the whole "freedom of speech" claim.  Just like a store owner can ask you to leave if you're being a nuisance.  However, in a free society, it takes more than a few complaints to make that happen.  In an environment of millions of users, the voices of 5 people don't represent the group as a whole.  What may be vulgar or harassing to you may be just water under the bridge for the majority.  So like I said, you can mute, ignore, avoid, and report the person and you've done your part.  Move on, life is too short.

 Sir Legendhead wrote:

 Nien Numb wrote:

No I read your statement in its entirety, and it has some merits.  Kids do need to learn how to deal with insults and the like.  The problem is those same kids are learning they can say what they want and for the most part have no consequences.  You and I both know that is not the case in the real world.  My problem was people misuse the 1st amendment all the time and when you did again it teed me off.  I will refrain from simple insults such as referring to you as a woman and say we will agree to disagree. 

If the kids say hurtful things to each other on the forums, then the best way for them to learn is for somebody to speak back.

These kids can learn from each other better than they can learn from us.

Simply erasing what they say solves nothing. They're not going to learn anything that way.

 

 

why is that?

---

*GAMERDADZ*

mmmmm plasma

I am going to move on from this forum post ( I think), but not from the issue.  You are right, Life is too short to deal with bigots all the time...and sadly there are more than ever on Live.  I love Live, I have been on since 04, and that is why I am so passionate and disappointed.  WoW has a system where people are removed from voice chat ( or so I have heard).  There has to be a better system...not sure what, but proactive always trumps reactive.

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

 Nien Numb wrote:

I am going to move on from this forum post ( I think), but not from the issue.  You are right, Life is too short to deal with bigots all the time...and sadly there are more than ever on Live.  I love Live, I have been on since 04, and that is why I am so passionate and disappointed.  WoW has a system where people are removed from voice chat ( or so I have heard).  There has to be a better system...not sure what, but proactive always trumps reactive.

 keep up the good fight, as you know there are alot of good people in live.

---

*GAMERDADZ*

mmmmm plasma

 Nien Numb wrote:

You are speaking like someone who has lived his life in the majority.  To be judged by who you are, how you were born...it is a deeply personal thing.  And the bigotry on Live is not something that is exclusive to kids...

That pretty much goes without saying.

I take it as a compliment that I sound like somebody who has lived his life in the majority. It's taken a great deal of effort on my part to pass for a member of the American status quo.

Let me be honest. Completely honest. What makes a man an American is how well he puts himself over. That in turn, determines the amount of money that he makes. Which in turn, determines how seriously people take him when he speaks in public.

Unless, of course, we're speaking on the internet. At which point, the only thing that matters is how well we are able to communicate.

---

AKA lingeredshade
SvR 2010 keyword: iron mask

 Sir Legendhead wrote:

 Nien Numb wrote:

You are speaking like someone who has lived his life in the majority.  To be judged by who you are, how you were born...it is a deeply personal thing.  And the bigotry on Live is not something that is exclusive to kids...

That pretty much goes without saying.

I take it as a compliment that I sound like somebody who has lived his life in the majority. It's taken a great deal of effort on my part to pass for a member of the American status quo.

Let me be honest. Completely honest. What makes a man an American is how well he puts himself over. That in turn, determines the amount of money that he makes. Which in turn, determines how seriously people take him when he speaks in public.

Unless, of course, we're speaking on the internet. At which point, the only thing that matters is how well we are able to communicate.

Not my America, Ill take family , friends , and health over money any day.

---

*GAMERDADZ*

mmmmm plasma

 MO MOSS wrote:

 Sir Legendhead wrote:

If the kids say hurtful things to each other on the forums, then the best way for them to learn is for somebody to speak back.

These kids can learn from each other better than they can learn from us.

Simply erasing what they say solves nothing. They're not going to learn anything that way.

why is that?

That's me speaking from personal experience. When I was young, I learned life lessons from other young people that my parents simply weren't able to teach me.

---

AKA lingeredshade
SvR 2010 keyword: iron mask

 Sir Legendhead wrote:

 MO MOSS wrote:

 Sir Legendhead wrote:

If the kids say hurtful things to each other on the forums, then the best way for them to learn is for somebody to speak back.

These kids can learn from each other better than they can learn from us.

Simply erasing what they say solves nothing. They're not going to learn anything that way.

why is that?

That's me speaking from personal experience. When I was young, I learned life lessons from other young people that my parents simply weren't able to teach me.

 such as?

---

*GAMERDADZ*

mmmmm plasma

 MO MOSS wrote:

 Sir Legendhead wrote:

 Nien Numb wrote:

You are speaking like someone who has lived his life in the majority.  To be judged by who you are, how you were born...it is a deeply personal thing.  And the bigotry on Live is not something that is exclusive to kids...

That pretty much goes without saying.

I take it as a compliment that I sound like somebody who has lived his life in the majority. It's taken a great deal of effort on my part to pass for a member of the American status quo.

Let me be honest. Completely honest. What makes a man an American is how well he puts himself over. That in turn, determines the amount of money that he makes. Which in turn, determines how seriously people take him when he speaks in public.

Unless, of course, we're speaking on the internet. At which point, the only thing that matters is how well we are able to communicate.

Not my America, Ill take family , friends , and health over money any day.

Did you only read the blue part?

I think you might have misunderstood where I was going with that. Dude, you just cut me off in the middle of a sentence. If this is gonna turn into a Fox News type of thing, then I might as well just leave.

---

AKA lingeredshade
SvR 2010 keyword: iron mask