Controls

PAC-MAN Championship Edition™

Controls

Citizen Erectus 04-21-2009, 4:05 AM
This game is great but it would be nice if controls were configurable. I think that the 4-way control would be better served by the button cluster on the right. Probably a bit late to whine about it now...

Re: Controls

BG Curator 04-29-2009, 11:29 PM

Citizen Erectus wrote:
This game is great but it would be nice if controls were configurable. I think that the 4-way control would be better served by the button cluster on the right. Probably a bit late to whine about it now...

That's an interesting thought. Playing with the regular thumbstick certainly can be an incredibly frustrating experience. On numerous occasions upon dying, I've looked down with horror upon my usually reliable controller, as if it has betrayed me.

Which, in many cases, it has - missed turns, completely unexpected turns, etc. It's too bad the developer went to all this trouble to make an outstanding game only to saddle it with poor controls. You have to wonder - did they test this before they released it?

Re: Controls

TIGGER GB 05-03-2009, 5:39 PM
yes ITS A GREAT GAME BUT WOULD BE MUCH BETTER WITH DIFFERENT CONTROL OPTIONS. THS CAN BE ACHIEVED,BUY BUYING AN ADAPTOR (WWW.CONSOLESANDGAMES.COM) AND USING AN OLD STYLE PC ANALOGUE OPTION

TIGGER GB

Re: Controls

upwithgup 07-06-2009, 4:55 AM
What's weird about the controls to me is, Pac Man has a mind of his own. I thought the controls sucked at first -- I'd find Pac Man doing wrong turns, or making sudden reversals shortly after the action starts to speed up. Finally, I gave up in frustration and just let go of the controller entirely, and Pac Man just went on eating dots and making turns all on his own! It's like the game is running half in "demo mode" and the controller inputs are ignored or misinterpreted half the time. It's more like you're making suggestions to Pac Man about the path he should take, rather than controlling him. It's the most bizarre thing I've ever seen in a video game. Has anyone figured out how to control Pac Man with absolute precision in this game? It would be a much better experience if I didn't feel like I was constantly fighting the controls, or just taking a back seat and watching Pac Man do all the work for me.

Re: Controls

OzPatriot 07-06-2009, 6:07 PM

upwithgup wrote:
What's weird about the controls to me is, Pac Man has a mind of his own. I thought the controls sucked at first -- I'd find Pac Man doing wrong turns, or making sudden reversals shortly after the action starts to speed up. Finally, I gave up in frustration and just let go of the controller entirely, and Pac Man just went on eating dots and making turns all on his own! It's like the game is running half in "demo mode" and the controller inputs are ignored or misinterpreted half the time. It's more like you're making suggestions to Pac Man about the path he should take, rather than controlling him. It's the most bizarre thing I've ever seen in a video game. Has anyone figured out how to control Pac Man with absolute precision in this game? It would be a much better experience if I didn't feel like I was constantly fighting the controls, or just taking a back seat and watching Pac Man do all the work for me.

I hear people say this so much about this game. They blame the controller for them being bad at the game. There is no "magic trick" or "special joystick", just a regular thumbstick. Mastering it is the key to mastering the game. You have to learn how to round all the corners and having a set pattern (sort of) enables this as the turns soon become second nature, even at the higher speeds near the end.

Sorry I just hate it when I hear people blame controllers for why they are not so good. Everyone is playing the same game some are better than others of course. This game as I am finding takes ALOT of practice. I doesn't feel to me one bit that my pacman is in "demo mode", as you put it. Any mistake made is made by me not the control or not the fact I was "taking a back seat and watch Pac Man do all the work for me" lol..If you want to see how its done go to YouTube and watch the high scorers. They will show you that mastery is possible in this game but with practice and alot of it.

"You have the Platinum medal...You know, it just might be an actual crime to ride that well"-Trials HD

Re: Controls

upwithgup 07-08-2009, 1:23 AM

OzPatriot wrote:
upwithgup wrote:
What's weird about the controls to me is, Pac Man has a mind of his own. I thought the controls sucked at first -- I'd find Pac Man doing wrong turns, or making sudden reversals shortly after the action starts to speed up. Finally, I gave up in frustration and just let go of the controller entirely, and Pac Man just went on eating dots and making turns all on his own! It's like the game is running half in "demo mode" and the controller inputs are ignored or misinterpreted half the time. It's more like you're making suggestions to Pac Man about the path he should take, rather than controlling him. It's the most bizarre thing I've ever seen in a video game. Has anyone figured out how to control Pac Man with absolute precision in this game? It would be a much better experience if I didn't feel like I was constantly fighting the controls, or just taking a back seat and watching Pac Man do all the work for me.

I hear people say this so much about this game. They blame the controller for them being bad at the game. There is no "magic trick" or "special joystick", just a regular thumbstick. Mastering it is the key to mastering the game. You have to learn how to round all the corners and having a set pattern (sort of) enables this as the turns soon become second nature, even at the higher speeds near the end.

Sorry I just hate it when I hear people blame controllers for why they are not so good. Everyone is playing the same game some are better than others of course. This game as I am finding takes ALOT of practice. I doesn't feel to me one bit that my pacman is in "demo mode", as you put it. Any mistake made is made by me not the control or not the fact I was "taking a back seat and watch Pac Man do all the work for me" lol..If you want to see how its done go to YouTube and watch the high scorers. They will show you that mastery is possible in this game but with practice and alot of it.

I am NOT blaming the controller. I am completely serious. I took my hands COMPLETELY OFF of the controller, and watched Pac Man make turns and go through the maze as though on auto-pilot. The game started out with me completely in control, but after a while as the game sped up, Pac Man took control, almost as though I was merely watching the "demo mode", except occasionally controller inputs were actually heeded by the game.

He followed the dot trail through the maze, grabbed energizers, and chased down ghosts, all while I made absolutely ZERO controller inputs for a LONG time -- 10-15 seconds or more. Eventually the "auto pilot" would shut off and Pac Man would just stop where he was, and I'd realize (usually too late) that I needed to nudge him in a direction before he ran into a ghost. If I tried to use the controller while the auto-pilot was on, it was like I was fighting to override the auto-pilot. Sometimes I'd want to go the way the auto pilot wanted to go, sometimes the auto-pilot wanted to go its own way and overruled me. Other times it was as though our conflicting inputs caused Pac Man to reverse direction -- this was nearly always fatal.

I've played using the analog stick and the D-pad on the wireless 360 controller, and the behavior exhibits itself regardless of which control I use. I don't think the controller was bad, but I can't imagine why the game would be programmed in such a way that the game would start playing itself, and almost act as though it were annoyed that you were still trying to control the player.

Re: Controls

OzPatriot 07-08-2009, 7:03 AM
Hahaha, I know if he is going straight you can let it go and he will go in that direction till you touch the stick again, but "watched him turn corners"..Haha that is complete BS and you sound just like the sort of gamer I refer to in my original post.

I have played this game enough now to know what I am talking about. Its very clear that you obviously have know clue. Play the game more, get better at and you will realise that the controls are actually an integral part of game.

All I know is I have to make every turn myself, when I don't I mess up. Its that simple really. I thought I had heard all the excuses people make about being bad at the game, but never that "pac man has a mind of his own"..lol.

I am guessing your young and younger gamers just don't like the sort of challenge that some of these arcade games provide. Like I said they take ALOT of practice. Kids ares to quick to write off a game because its too difficult to start with normally with the sort of excuses people like yourself carry on with.

Sorry but its just so hard to take a post like yours seriously, especially when the obvious BS is obvious

"You have the Platinum medal...You know, it just might be an actual crime to ride that well"-Trials HD

Re: Controls

pacmantab 07-08-2009, 4:15 PM
I guess I would ask how old your controllers are? Might be time for a fresh set. I know my old controllers are pretty well-worn from too much Pac-Man...LOL.

I've found the analog stick is your best bet (the D-pad is just impossible). I, being somewhat old-school, hold it with my first two fingers and thumb, as if it were a tiny joystick. But that's what I feel most comfortable with...

Re: Controls

upwithgup 07-09-2009, 3:45 AM
Actually, I'm 34 years old and have played Pac Man since the age of 6, when the original first came out.

I am not lying. I don't actually own a 360, but I love Pac Man. I loved playing the PMCE demo on a friend's 360 so much that I actually bought the game on disc at Game Stop when I saw it for $5, and have held onto it, intending eventually to buy a 360 to play it on. So far I haven't, because of all the reported problems with the hardware being unreliable (RROD, scratched discs, etc) that I have heard.

I actually played it finally for the first time for real this last weekend, when a visiting relative brought their 360 with them.

You don't have to believe me. Maybe I did actually have a broken controller? But whatever the case, this is a real phenomenon, and it's annoying. Why would I make something up and waste everyone's time posting to a web forum about something that isn't actually happening?

If you're saying that no one else is having this problem, then good. I hope when I get my own 360 and controller that I don't see this behavior when I'm playing the game.

Re: Controls

OzPatriot 07-09-2009, 8:04 AM

Ok mate sorry if I came off a little harsh. A little harsh is the only way to get your point across when communicating with someone you don't know.

I will highlight the sentence in your post that highlights some of my previous points well

"I actually played it finally for the first time for real this last weekend, when a visiting relative brought their 360 with them".

I don't want to sound arrogant but I am basing my arguments on what seems like hundreds and hundreds of hours of play. You are basing this "phenomenon"(your word, not mine) on having played it one time and the one view of your friend. So I really do now realise that I have indeed been wasting my time when that line alone that I highlighted pretty much null and voids every argument you have. I will say it again. The control in this game is not a flaw. It is integral to mastering the game. Notice how all the sides of the maze are curved?? There is a reason for this.

Also PacMan never turns corners on his own. Your saying you let go of the controller completely and Pacman went through the maze all by himself?? Im sorry but I still stand by my original call of BS, and again I am basing this on alot of experience of playing this game. Something you have virtually zero of.

"You have the Platinum medal...You know, it just might be an actual crime to ride that well"-Trials HD

Re: Controls

pacmantab 07-09-2009, 7:39 PM

34 years old is still a spring chicken in the world of video games IMO....LOL

I know I have had a time or two playing CE when the controller failed me...so I'll stop short of saying the controller is not an issue whatsoever. That said I simply would suggest that it is something that takes a bit of getting used to.

When I played in the Xbox 360 Pac-Man U.S. Regional, my very first game of Pac-Man (I actually had to buy a brand-new 360 for the contest) yielded a mere 43,000. At the time that put me in 114th place. I had to really experiment and play constantly for a number of hours just to figure out the best way to hold and utilize the controller.

It wasn't until I was able to "control the controller" that I was able to start improving, eventually qualifying for the finals in NYC.

Championship Edition does present a challenge because it gets REALLY fast in the latter stages. I would recommend working on anticipating your path...so you can be holding the controller in the desired direction BEFORE reaching the turn itself. It's a hard thing to master, but it does come easier and easier the more you play.

Re: Controls

upwithgup 07-09-2009, 10:04 PM
I didn't play the game "once" I played it for an evening, for several hours.

It's true that I don't have a whole lot of stick time logged on the 360 wireless controller. But again, I'll reiterate, I would play the game and the controls would feel normal for a time. After the action got a little speedy, I'd find that Pac Man just wouldn't obey my controller inputs. I'd want him to turn, and he'd reverse. Or he'd ignore my input entirely. Or, I'd want him to go straight, and all of a sudden he'd turn on his own.

I thought there was something funny going on with the controller at first. Like that physically something was worn out in the contacts, or it was just very touchy. I was playing on the D-pad at first, so I switched to the analog stick, but the problem still persisted.

I continued to play, and managet to rack scores of up to 130,000 on the 5-minute Championship mode game, usually not making it through the entire 5 minutes (it'd kindof hard when you can't get Pac Man to obey your input). I never said I was great at Pac Man CE, but I did take time to read the instructoions on screen and learn how to play. I went through the configuration options, and of course there aren't any for the controls. It's dead simple. It's Pac Man, what do you expect? So I kept on playing, assuming that I was just experiencing typical newb frustration with the game, and that eventually I'd develop the touch and I'd understand why Pac Man would suddenly turn.

For a while, I played with an assumption that if you tried to turn when you couldn't, Pac Man would reverse. Like if you were running down a long tunnel and pressed into the wall, he'd turn around. I thought, maybe I'm pressing into the wall too early, trying to do a faster turn, and the game is interpreting my stick input with some weird logic, perhaps something like:

ChangeDirection(Stick.Input) {
   If Stick.Input.Direction.IsNotBlockedByWall() Then
     TurnPacMan(Direction)
   Else
      Stick.Input.ElapsedTime = 0
      While Not(Stick.Input.DirectionIsNotBlockedByWall()) && (Stick.Input.ElapsedTime <= 250) Do {
         Stick.Input.ElapsedTime++;
      }
     If Stick.Input.ElapsedTime => 250 Then
        ChangeDirection(Random);
}

So I started trying to play super, super precise, turning *just* before I hit the gap in the maze where I wanted to turn. My play improved a bit, but Pac Man would still make random turns at times or refuse to make a turn I wanted him to make. Eventually, I started to get frustrated.

After a few games of playing like this, I started testing things out. I'd play a game, and take my hands completely off the controls. Literally, the controller was sitting on my flat open palm, with no part of me touching any buttons, the D-pad, or the analog stick. Pac Man would run around the maze for what felt like a long time, but probably was just a few seconds. He wouldn't run into a corner and stop, he'd follow the line of dots, turning several corners, grabbing the fruit or the energizer, and chase down ghosts. It was like he built up a certain amount of momentum and after letting go of the controller he'd keep playing without me for a few seconds until he ran out of steam. Then he'd stop making turns automatically and run into a corner and not move again until I pressed a direction.

I tested this from the very beginning of a game, and it did not happen at first -- it only seemed to happen once the game sped up.

Something very weird was happening. Since he was playing well on "auto-pilot" I started to think that the game was built that way on purpose for some reason, although it made no sense to me. It did not seem like a worn or defective controller was feeding the game random inputs -- the skill level that Pac Man "auto-pilot" was demonstrating could not have been replicated by chance.

I'm not claiming to know what was happening or what caused it, but I will swear on my life that it happened just as I have stated.

All I want to know is, is that how the game is supposed to be? (You've answered that, thanks).

Since it's NOT... then how do I fix it? Has anyone else seen this odd behavior, and what did you do about it?

Re: Controls

OzPatriot 07-10-2009, 3:39 AM
Ok no worries lets leave this here hey.

Like Pacmantab said above, learn to anticipate where you will be going, sort of make the decision before you make the turn. I said something before about "set paths" and this is what I was alluding to.

Again this game is ALL about practice. Knowing ghost behaviour and mastering the thumbstick will serve you well. "Rounding" the corners, rather than trying to rapidly flick your stick in the direction you need to go. You really can get a reall nice groove going when you get good at it and thats why I defend the thumbstick so much, as to me they have incorporated it very well and it ADDS to the game.

What your saying is pacman has some sort of "autopilot" and I know for he fact he doesn't. Thats pretty much what we are arguing about here.

Anyway a score of 130k really isn't too bad for someone who has just picked it up. Maybe when you start getting in some game time and get your scores up to 300+ you will then be able to see where I was coming from with my posts.

"You have the Platinum medal...You know, it just might be an actual crime to ride that well"-Trials HD

Re: Controls

upwithgup 07-10-2009, 3:59 AM
Well, I can't expect you to believe something if you've never seen it, especially if you've played a lot and haven't seen it.

I did find that I liked the analog stick better once I switched to it. I'm an old-school NES guy, and never much cared for the analog stick on the N64, so this surprised me a bit.

If I get a chance to play again soon, I'll try to shoot some video of me playing it, and post to youtube if I can get the odd behavior to replicate.

Now, if you really want to be a skeptic, you can just claim that someone else is in the room off-camera, interfering with a second wireless controller, I suppose. But I'll pan around the room and show that there's no one else with a controller, just an assistant with the camera, and that's really all I can do. I'll see if I can get the image on screen to show clearly while the controller is visible.

To be honest, I'll be happy if I can't reproduce this glitch, because then I'll *really* get to play. I bet I would have my score 200-300k that night if I hadn't had such a time with the controls acting all weird. Pac Man on "auto-pilot" played well, but when he'd suddenly stopped running, it'd end my game pretty quick.

If I get video, I'll post a link to it here, and you can see what I mean.

Re: Controls

upwithgup 07-12-2009, 12:59 AM
OK, I figured out what's going on....

The dumb. I has it. Get ready to lol...

You know how when you complete the game, it automatically goes into Replay mode? I thought I was playing when it was replaying my last game.

I cannot believe that I didn't understand this. But when I pressed A, it made the sound like when you start, so I thought I was starting, not merely watching the replay of my last game. Since I was watching my last game, a lot of the same moves I would have made, I wanted to make again, and when I made a mistake, that was generally when I wanted to go a different way from where the replay was unfolding. Thus, I thought that Pac Man was running amok of his own free will.

How did I not notice the word "Replay" in the middle box, you ask? I guess at first I thought I had earned a second game, or something.

Oh well, now that I understand the difference between when I'm playing and when I'm watching my last game on replay, I have much better success at running the game. I managed to get a 300,000 tonight on one game, not too bad:)

I still feel really dumb, though. Oh well.

Re: Controls

OzPatriot 07-21-2009, 6:57 AM
Embarrassed [:$]

Oh my!!

Its ok mate I am not going to rub it in too much as that is actually pretty funny. I know I have come across as a bit of jerk here, but if I know I am right, I can't let it go lol..Its actually good you came here and admitted to your error, alot of people wouldn't have done that. I just hope now if you ever re-read my posts you can actually see where I was coming from.

Im assuming you got 300k on another one of modes, if not, that is actually really impressive for someone who hasn't played it much

"You have the Platinum medal...You know, it just might be an actual crime to ride that well"-Trials HD