In other words, what is the average learning curve for it? Either I just plain suck at it with a ranked record of about 0-20 or the online is just broken. Almost everyone I fight has major lag (to which I have to d/c myself and I still get penalized for it), or uses the same cheap moves and I almost have no chance of connecting attacks. Don't get me wrong, I can do alright offline, multiplayer or anything else, but when I go online I lose it completely.

I just want to get good enough to be decent online, if it doesn't consist of being cheap that is.

Good luck. I used to play online until everyone I played used Kilik(sp?) and of course the cheap moves(not to mention I moved to BFE and can't get an internet connection out there). IMO if you want to play good online start learning those cheap moves, or get your timing perfect with the parrys, but I dont know if that would even help against people online.

Button mash.

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"Perhaps it was the Noid who should have avoided me" -Mayor Adam West

 st00pid monkey4 wrote:

Button mash.

I think that would fall under "cheap moves"

First off, you should get off the notion of "cheap". That's the first step to becoming better. After that, memorize move lists and combos. Then learn the properies of each move (Tech Crouch, Tech Jump, etc). Once you have this, you have to start learning animations of other moves, and simply just playing a lot.

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Play on edge master.

How do you get good?  Well, once I figure that out I'll let you know.    I began playing online last night and won once out of my first five matches, which was surprising because I expected to lose them all.  A couple matches were against Kilik who kept doing the same move (BA?) from mid/long range and I couldn't seem to block it or 8wr away from it.

I am looking forward to playing more online...

You don't.  You just stop sucking as much.

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When life gives you lemons, make chocolate milk.

http://www.8wayrun.com/f6/learning-how-to-learn-soul-calibur-t552/

Sounds like you still have a lot of the technical info to learn as well, but this article should give you some food for thought while you're exploring the game mechanics.  Keep in mind that all applies to online, offline (even on 5 bars) is all about picking someone with a strong low sweep and just guessing a lot.  It's really not that deep.

easy, just play good players...you'll eventually pick up on certain things (combos, tech traps, wake-up games, etc.).

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Rehab-Records.com -- Shoryuken.com
BB Main: Nu/Tager -- TrueSkill: 38 -- Score Attack Rank: #18

Choose ONE character to focus on and then use training mode a lot. Start to beat up a non-responsive dummy at first using basic moves at first and then trying out other moves such as simultaneous (sp?) press moves. After that, try to string together combos. THen you should try fighting against an A.I. opponent and try to incorporate those combos into actual battle. As for learning OTHER style's moves and how to block them, just spar against them, find patterns and warnings (such as a wind-up for a move) and figure out how to counter/block it. It may sound like a lot, but it sure helped me get better (not saying that I'm good btw). Hope this helps :)

Advance Note: I have never actually played this game online, but I do have some experience in the game offline. First off, what attacks are you losing to? An example is laying around near the edge of the ring waiting for an enemy to come to the edge so that your opponent can throw you off(Which can be countered by simply NOT GOING to the edge of the ring if he lays back there).

So far as practice goes, I suppose going into sparring would help, and fighting the computer on the higher difficulty levels will help. Also, if you can, try and figure out where your characters weak points are and where your opponents characters weak points are. I.E. if you play a fast character like Cassandra, but are fighting a long reach powerhouse like Astaroth, getting up close as much as you can to bring your speed to bear would be a good strategy(IMO).

And finally, against certain cheap tactics, there tend to be counters. To close this post up, I'm going to name a few annoying moves and tactics that, with practice, should become easy to stop or at the very least, possible.

Kilik's Backwards Horizontal Attack: You probably know this one. He whips around and clocks your character across the face with his annoyingly fast staff. The counter to this, IMO, is not parrying or anything(As in my experience, parrying is less preferable to other, easier counters), rather then ducking once you see him whipping around(And trust me, if you can parry that, you can duck it).

Kilik's Forward Triple Horizontal Attack: In this one, he quickly starts spinning around with his staff, clocking you as he goes. Again, I prefer ducking then counterattacking as he must be in close range to hit you anyway.

And finally, Edge of Ring Loitering: I think we've all seen this before. This is the tactic where the opponent just kind of hangs out at the ring edge and waits to ring you out. If you're at the same health or if you have higher health, dash to the edge of the screen and make him come to you. If he's foolish enough to sit there all day, you should get the win from the timer. If there's no timer, he'll have to come at you eventually, and punish him when he does. If you have less health, on the other hand, it becomes a bit of a problem(Unless there's no timer, in which case just use the standard counter-tactic). If you're at low health, try and dash forward towards him, then try to use your tested-and-true counter to his attack after coming to an abrupt stop, or, if you're feeling daring, ring HIM out instead.

I hope this helps some.

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Likes competitive playing to win.

To add onto people standing with their back to the edge waiting to toss you over, an important thing to remember is that only 3 characters in the game have reverse RO throws that ARE NOT B breaks.  Yoshi has rainbow drop, Ivy's regular A grab and Vader's regular A grab all reverse RO, other than that everyone else is a B break.  This includes the low attack throws such as Sieg/NM's flapjack and Kilik/Mina's crotch grab.  You break them all with B. 

yeah, and watch out for Mitsu's 3B, 44AA when he's in that same situation.

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Rehab-Records.com -- Shoryuken.com
BB Main: Nu/Tager -- TrueSkill: 38 -- Score Attack Rank: #18

Yeah there's a number of moves that don't have throw breaks that ring out in various directions, not just backwards but to the front and sides as well.  Learn which moves to watch for, and be aware of your position in the ring, this has always been a huge part of the strategy in Soul Calibur.

 Gradden wrote:

I just want to get good enough to be decent online, if it doesn't consist of being cheap that is.

I loled.

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 Vizierde wrote:

 Gradden wrote:

I just want to get good enough to be decent online, if it doesn't consist of being cheap that is.

I loled.

I didn't even catch this comment earlier, but the lol is pretty warranted in this case.  Online, even with a 5 bar connection, makes slow lows much more viable as a mixup tool, to the point where it changes the entire way the game is played.  Many layers of strategy are stripped away in favor of a banal guessing game between lows and mids. 

It's still played this way because a lot of less experienced players think that this constitutes high level play, and laggy online play only reinforces this misconception, unfortunately.  All you really need to do is talk to people who have started out online, and then gone to their first SC4 tournament offline and seen the difference.

OP, I'm not gonna lie to you, there are two types of people who play online - those who are good, and those who choose Kilik. You can't force your way into the first category, sorry.

remember low kick, against 99.999% of people doing cheap moves or being one move masters cant block low kicks or even kicks when your getting up from being downed it breaks their flow for long enough for you to get moves in.

As for blocking is it is slower than in the main game so block as the attack begins and not just before it hits, luckily all major attacks come with a colour follwoing the weapon like a trail so if you see a colour block.

 bE rAd 82 wrote:

OP, I'm not gonna lie to you, there are two types of people who play online - those who are good, and those who choose Kilik. You can't force your way into the first category, sorry.

QFT.Skilled Kilik players are few and far between so it's just best to assume they're scrubs that don't know how to block lows. GG.

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Looking forward to - COD:MW2, Left 4 Dead 2, BioShock 2, FF13, Mass Effect 2

Pick the character you like the most who you won't get bored to play as, try playing with him, learn some moves in teh training session  and study some moves on the move list. Write the main ones down on paper if you need to, and keep practicing. Eventually you will be able to pull the moves off  easily without thing. With the use of the moves becoming easily, you will learn when is the best time to use them in what situation. Soon, you will be able to judge an enemy and pull off a move you think would best fit the situation, or based on what move you feel like you want to use at that time during the match. Thats the cool thing about picking a guy you like, and not just what u feel would be the easier win, not only can you learn what moves works best, but you can use the choices of good moves, and pick on what move you think would be the coolest/most eye catching to use. If you do moves fast/good enough without botching, you will get the attention of spectators, who you will destroy next.

Thats how to get good. Not only knowing all your moves, but when to use them

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Its that Real, I hope you know this, I got my eyes on the prize man, im so focused.

Don't try and over think it. Pick the character you like the most and go into training and try out every move then build a style from those moves of the ones you can pull off the easiest adding the more difficult ones as you progress.

If you master your character then Kilik posers won't even be a second thought.

The other advise is to just take your lumps until you hold your own, its what I used to do back in the arcade days. I took a lot of beatings on the original Mortal Kombat until one day I took out the best player double flawless, I went from fresh meat to top five in the arcade at MK.

So practise and more practise followed by getting your but beat until it clicks.

 Wolvel wrote:

Don't try and over think it. Pick the character you like the most and go into training and try out every move then build a style from those moves of the ones you can pull off the easiest adding the more difficult ones as you progress.

If you master your character then Kilik posers won't even be a second thought.

The other advise is to just take your lumps until you hold your own, its what I used to do back in the arcade days. I took a lot of beatings on the original Mortal Kombat until one day I took out the best player double flawless, I went from fresh meat to top five in the arcade at MK.

So practise and more practise followed by getting your but beat until it clicks.

Great advice (except for the Kilik black eye :-)  ).  The practice room is your friend and so is defeat.  They both ultimately make you better.

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Admire the bamboo;
While in the fury of storms
Will bend and not break.

 Bamboo Wind wrote:

 Wolvel wrote:

Don't try and over think it. Pick the character you like the most and go into training and try out every move then build a style from those moves of the ones you can pull off the easiest adding the more difficult ones as you progress.

If you master your character then Kilik posers won't even be a second thought.

The other advise is to just take your lumps until you hold your own, its what I used to do back in the arcade days. I took a lot of beatings on the original Mortal Kombat until one day I took out the best player double flawless, I went from fresh meat to top five in the arcade at MK.

So practise and more practise followed by getting your but beat until it clicks.

Great advice (except for the Kilik black eye :-)  ).  The practice room is your friend and so is defeat.  They both ultimately make you better.

The Kilik black eye was aimed at the ones who just use a repetitive move character without learning the game. Like said before a true Kilik master is few and far between.

 Wolvel wrote:

The Kilik black eye was aimed at the ones who just use a repetitive move character without learning the game. Like said before a true Kilik master is few and far between.

The blame for this shouldn't be placed on the character.  Fighting games SHOULD be designed with characters that are easy for new players to pick up, if this was a game full of Setsukas and Ivys, it wouldn't be as popular.  Namco, for the most part, has always had a nice balance with Kilik, giving him effective and easy to apply tools, that have very clear weaknesses to experienced players. 

They just recently missed that mark with the patch that changed Asura from GIing all B attacks to all mids, left the tech jump properties in (dodging throws AND lows in the process) and giving it a JF version for over 80 damage.  This, combined with WS B beating a ton of moves that normally counter Asura, made him MUCH stronger than he's been in the past. 

But aside from that one minor gaff making such a huge difference, 99% of the complaints about Kilik are completely unwarranted.  Fighting games are full of terrible players, so if they all flock to a few characters, what's the difference?  And if you lose to these repetitive players, that reflects on YOU, not on the game.  It's a harsh truth that, in this age of games full of hand holding and easy answers, killed the fighting genre for years.  Eventually, people run out of excuses and have no choice but to accept that they need to better themselves, or quit and go play something else.

 KowtowRobinson wrote:

But aside from that one minor gaff making such a huge difference, 99% of the complaints about Kilik are completely unwarranted.  Fighting games are full of terrible players, so if they all flock to a few characters, what's the difference?  And if you lose to these repetitive players, that reflects on YOU, not on the game.  It's a harsh truth that, in this age of games full of hand holding and easy answers, killed the fighting genre for years.  Eventually, people run out of excuses and have no choice but to accept that they need to better themselves, or quit and go play something else.

Damn right

 KowtowRobinson wrote:

 Wolvel wrote:

The Kilik black eye was aimed at the ones who just use a repetitive move character without learning the game. Like said before a true Kilik master is few and far between.

The blame for this shouldn't be placed on the character.  Fighting games SHOULD be designed with characters that are easy for new players to pick up, if this was a game full of Setsukas and Ivys, it wouldn't be as popular.  Namco, for the most part, has always had a nice balance with Kilik, giving him effective and easy to apply tools, that have very clear weaknesses to experienced players. 

They just recently missed that mark with the patch that changed Asura from GIing all B attacks to all mids, left the tech jump properties in (dodging throws AND lows in the process) and giving it a JF version for over 80 damage.  This, combined with WS B beating a ton of moves that normally counter Asura, made him MUCH stronger than he's been in the past. 

But aside from that one minor gaff making such a huge difference, 99% of the complaints about Kilik are completely unwarranted.  Fighting games are full of terrible players, so if they all flock to a few characters, what's the difference?  And if you lose to these repetitive players, that reflects on YOU, not on the game.  It's a harsh truth that, in this age of games full of hand holding and easy answers, killed the fighting genre for years.  Eventually, people run out of excuses and have no choice but to accept that they need to better themselves, or quit and go play something else.

I'm not bad mouthing the characters, there is nothing wrong with Kilik, his fighting style is based on distance so his attacks are designed to keep other fighters at bay. In my first post I said you just have to find away around those types of players to beat them and I used Kilik as an example because I have seen plenty of players get repetitive with other characters as well.

And in your last paragraph I agree 100% that too many easy games have in a whole weakened gaming overall. People complained about Ninja Gaiden on the first Xbox because of the difficulty, back in the NES/Genisis/SNES days this would have been a game at the normal level and no one would complain. That being said since fighting games first hit there have been repetitive players always has always will.

Bottom line as said before if you lose to a repetitive player then its your fault not someone who beat you. Practice your character until you know it in and out then the rep players will not be much of a threat.

To add to what the above people wrote.   Online experiece vs offline experience are different.  DoA4 I would argue is made for online,  SCIV not so much.  I speak of the dreaded lag,  & certain moves like GI & GP I would suggest you pay attention to in online play,  particularly if the connection is questionable. 

Also some common sense,  what are the strengths of character X?  Speed, power, defense &/or defensive moves, can moves flow easily from one to the other (Maxi as an example here)? The advice I always give is pretty simple, try all the characters & look for those character(s) that're "you" & look for those people who use "your" character(s) well.  Ask them to teach you or play you,  the worst things they can do are either ignore you or say "no".  Also, if you can record your matches (been awhile since I was on this so I forgot) try & do that.  Just as boxers study tapes of their old matches, do the same. Look for those things you tended to repeat &/or that your opponent capitalized on & in this case do the "what if?" game by looking for those things you could've done different.  During a match, don't panic or lose your head; because once that happens you neither regain the initiative or win, that's just the way it is. 

I'm pretty systematic;  practice the moves,  look for what flows into what,  & then look for those who use "my" character(s). 

The technical aspects I'll leave to people like KowtowRobinson & Tidelleaf (how you guys study that stuff without getting bleary-eyed or a headache is beyond me).  Hope I didn't ramble too much, I'm getting old

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That which is manmade has within it the seeds of its own destruction.

Nice post, Randzz.

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Admire the bamboo;
While in the fury of storms
Will bend and not break.

When I can, I try  Thanx

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That which is manmade has within it the seeds of its own destruction.