Sorry but I tried to hold back on this a long time.  First, the team moved from Boston to Marin County.  Most of the thinking that goes into it won't be done by Austrailia.  Formally Irrational Games it was their freakin baby for Pete's sake, along with the mastermind Ken Levine.

Levine is a consultant on this one?  Haha yeah like listing a 3rd AD or Producer on a movie.

No, I think they botched it, they know it, and that's why they moved the date out.  What kills me, what really makes me squirm is, Levine set this all up for them in Marin County, no way they could have flubbed it.

But no, they have original ideas, sure! Xerox PARC isn't that far away, why not have original idea. :P

So, my argument...Levine showed us a fallen sign of 1959 New Year's Eve at the beginning of laying your eyes on the first part of the journey after the plane crash.  And an audio tape of Diane McClintock complaining about Ryan leaving her alone on New Year's Eve when...Fontaine's revolution happens!  You can hear Diane starting to freak out on the tape as she's watching the chaos.

Can you feel it?  Yes I'm taking Prequel.  The very perfect setting for that is now lost in this new Bioshock.  No, now we have a BIG sister coming back down to fight a BIG daddy.  Who gives a crapola about that?!  What we get to go outside, well we could have done that in the prequel possibly looking at some events during construction of Rapture.  Instead we had a previously dead Rapture that's still dead when we go back.  Been there done that. 

I'm convinced they're going to sell you a great, maybe fantastic looking game with lots of shooting and that's about it.  Basically selling out the great creation it once was.  Kids and parents of kids will buy this and they are counting on it.  But for you story loving fans, if you can convince yourself one sister came back down to Rapture, especially if you saving them all, and she has her own agenda to dominate and/or rule.  And...you're a Big Daddy now protecting a little sister.  That's it??  I think of myself as the biggest Bioshock fan of all time, too bad for me.

And why I mentioned 1959 specially, they could have tied in politics like Cuba going with Castro that year, or Hawaii and Alaska becoming states.  Some of these cultures could flee to Rapture to keep living they way they wanted before the changes, before the Ryan and Fontaine struggle begins.

 Now you ask, ok genius who could be the main character then?  Well I don't know, a younger Jack maybe?  Maybe a female character related to Jack we didn't know of before.  Jack was a DNA milkshake but was he the only one?

Anyway, these thoughts I don't expect to be revolutionary, I don't intend to influence your future purchase of the game, I just think they could have done WAY better then what we're getting.  My two cents.

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What if...I became a Spectre? Conrad...I haven't been shot in the head nearly enough times to think that's a good idea.

I never liked the idea of a prequel.  1. We already know the story (at least the main overarching story, New Years Eve party, revolution, etc etc), so we'd be playing some sub story about some sub character and him being either for or against the revolution.  Meh, not very interesting imo.  2. What would the ending be?  Does the game end with the revolution?  Not a very climactic ending (again, just my opinion)

I agree with you that I'm not thrilled about playing as a big daddy in the 2nd one, but I'm cautiously optimistic to see where they go with it.  They could get very twisty with some things in this game, such as who the big sister is.  Is it Jack's sister, made from the same "milkshake"?  Is it a resurrected Jasmine Jolie?  Or if it's some random person, maybe someone is controlling them behind the scenes, maybe its Tenenbaum.  You get my point, with a sequel versus a prequel, there are many more unanswerable questions.  In a prequel, we know the whole time we're playing that it has to end with the revolution, which takes the suspense out of it.

Like I said, I remain cautiously optimistic. 

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I am what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object

 Phoenix0329 wrote:

I never liked the idea of a prequel.  1. We already know the story (at least the main overarching story, New Years Eve party, revolution, etc etc), so we'd be playing some sub story about some sub character and him being either for or against the revolution.  Meh, not very interesting imo.  2. What would the ending be?  Does the game end with the revolution?  Not a very climactic ending (again, just my opinion)

I agree with you that I'm not thrilled about playing as a big daddy in the 2nd one, but I'm cautiously optimistic to see where they go with it.  They could get very twisty with some things in this game, such as who the big sister is.  Is it Jack's sister, made from the same "milkshake"?  Is it a resurrected Jasmine Jolie?  Or if it's some random person, maybe someone is controlling them behind the scenes, maybe its Tenenbaum.  You get my point, with a sequel versus a prequel, there are many more unanswerable questions.  In a prequel, we know the whole time we're playing that it has to end with the revolution, which takes the suspense out of it.

Like I said, I remain cautiously optimistic. 

I see your point about the Prequel.  I really couldn't think of another option.  But I still would love to see that revolution, it could be quite a huge thing though done right.  With the end, possibly two "endings" as in the first.  The revolution and then a huge twist like a Ryan corporation above ground having some controls on what happens next.  Just trying to think "The Usual Suspects" type of an approach.

If I flip over now and reconsider what you said and what you described, I guess we might have something there.  I was caustiously optimistic before I became anti.  Maybe you have something there, I guess we'll see.  You certainly shed some good light on my negative spin so I applaud you for that.  I guess I'm back at maybe. :)

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What if...I became a Spectre? Conrad...I haven't been shot in the head nearly enough times to think that's a good idea.

It's obvious that you're a big fan Torment hehe, haven't seen many people that have thought about the game as in-depth as you have.

My only two cents to add here is that we should really wait until the game is done to form an opinion.  How much do we really know about Bioshock 2?  Not much.  They've done well to keep details under wrap, and what I would suggest Torment, is that you think about it a little less!  You don't want to ruin your B2 experience by over thinking your expectations of the game before ever playing it.  Wait for the reviews to come out, read them...THEN make your decision.  Until then, I see no reason to believe that B2 won't be as great a game as B1...  They've taken their time with it, have a dedicated audience, a dedicated publisher...  Biosock has become one of those games that is a part of the flagship group of games for the 360 I think...with others like Mass Effect, Call of Duty, Halo, Gears of War, Assassins Creed...all games and series' that were very well handled, and aren't games that Micosoft will allow to be mediocre, because the 360 gaming community expects so much from them.  With the exception of Call of Duty (since it's also on the PS3), when people think of great games for the 360, they think of the ones I listed, along with others.  When people read about great games...those above are the games that are discussed.  And for that reason, the chance that Bioshock 2 and others will be bad, is, I think, much lower than the chance of them being GREAT.

Wow...so much for my short 2 cent paragraph hehe, my bad.  Just have some faith is all I can say  

 Hydrilus wrote:

It's obvious that you're a big fan Torment hehe, haven't seen many people that have thought about the game as in-depth as you have.

My only two cents to add here is that we should really wait until the game is done to form an opinion.  How much do we really know about Bioshock 2?  Not much.  They've done well to keep details under wrap, and what I would suggest Torment, is that you think about it a little less!  You don't want to ruin your B2 experience by over thinking your expectations of the game before ever playing it.  Wait for the reviews to come out, read them...THEN make your decision.  Until then, I see no reason to believe that B2 won't be as great a game as B1...  They've taken their time with it, have a dedicated audience, a dedicated publisher...  Biosock has become one of those games that is a part of the flagship group of games for the 360 I think...with others like Mass Effect, Call of Duty, Halo, Gears of War, Assassins Creed...all games and series' that were very well handled, and aren't games that Micosoft will allow to be mediocre, because the 360 gaming community expects so much from them.  With the exception of Call of Duty (since it's also on the PS3), when people think of great games for the 360, they think of the ones I listed, along with others.  When people read about great games...those above are the games that are discussed.  And for that reason, the chance that Bioshock 2 and others will be bad, is, I think, much lower than the chance of them being GREAT.

Wow...so much for my short 2 cent paragraph hehe, my bad.  Just have some faith is all I can say  

I hear ya bro...and I appreciate it, it's sound advice.  Guess I'm biting my fingernails on this one. :)

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What if...I became a Spectre? Conrad...I haven't been shot in the head nearly enough times to think that's a good idea.

Tormented, I think that you will still get a little glimpse of your prequel hopes in the multi-player. Granted you'll be more focused fraggin other players as opposed to unravelling an intricate plot line but at least you get a chance to SEE what rapture was like before it all went downhill. I don't know the whole story but I heard that the multi-player portion of the game is supposed to be based on a pre-bioshock events timeline, so I think that's kinda cool. I agree with the other post about prequels. Everyone's doing them, it's just gotten to be a cop out. Rather than a prequel I'd like to see the story continued with as much attention to detail as the first game. Prequels aren't all bad however, I do think they are better savored years down the road after the story has had a chance to flesh it's self out.

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As leader of P.A.P.A. the Z-day A-Team I endorse this message.

 Pusherman 80 wrote:

Tormented, I think that you will still get a little glimpse of your prequel hopes in the multi-player. Granted you'll be more focused fraggin other players as opposed to unravelling an intricate plot line but at least you get a chance to SEE what rapture was like before it all went downhill. I don't know the whole story but I heard that the multi-player portion of the game is supposed to be based on a pre-bioshock events timeline, so I think that's kinda cool. I agree with the other post about prequels. Everyone's doing them, it's just gotten to be a cop out. Rather than a prequel I'd like to see the story continued with as much attention to detail as the first game. Prequels aren't all bad however, I do think they are better savored years down the road after the story has had a chance to flesh it's self out.

I feel kinda bad I am so hard on the game before it even rears it's ugly head.  Pusherman, you guys have certainly put some fresh ideas on my objections.  I guess the path is still forward just thinking out of the box on what could have been a different path.  I'm still not keen on the current premise but I see the point you guys make on going backwards also.

Hey if MP works and it has that all the better, and maybe I'll cut Big Sister a break.  Maybe prequels should be left to movies like what Len Wiseman (Die Hard 4, Underworld series) is doing with Gears of War on film.  I have a really good IGN link somewhere I'll look it up if you're interested or you can search on it right away at movies.ign.com.  It also has the most recent news on the Bioshock movie.

But not to veer off the track, thanks for the perspective.  I don't do it intentionally but I seem to post reactionary thread titles and I get great and valuable feedback from those who have comtemplated this also, much respect.  Very cool. :)

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What if...I became a Spectre? Conrad...I haven't been shot in the head nearly enough times to think that's a good idea.

The game is not even out yet. Give it all you have when it comes out, but till then your argument holds a botched criteria at best. Nice ideas for a Bioshock prequel by the way.

 Tormented Sky wrote:

 Pusherman 80 wrote:

Tormented, I think that you will still get a little glimpse of your prequel hopes in the multi-player. Granted you'll be more focused fraggin other players as opposed to unravelling an intricate plot line but at least you get a chance to SEE what rapture was like before it all went downhill. I don't know the whole story but I heard that the multi-player portion of the game is supposed to be based on a pre-bioshock events timeline, so I think that's kinda cool. I agree with the other post about prequels. Everyone's doing them, it's just gotten to be a cop out. Rather than a prequel I'd like to see the story continued with as much attention to detail as the first game. Prequels aren't all bad however, I do think they are better savored years down the road after the story has had a chance to flesh it's self out.

I feel kinda bad I am so hard on the game before it even rears it's ugly head.  Pusherman, you guys have certainly put some fresh ideas on my objections.  I guess the path is still forward just thinking out of the box on what could have been a different path.  I'm still not keen on the current premise but I see the point you guys make on going backwards also.

Hey if MP works and it has that all the better, and maybe I'll cut Big Sister a break.  Maybe prequels should be left to movies like what Len Wiseman (Die Hard 4, Underworld series) is doing with Gears of War on film.  I have a really good IGN link somewhere I'll look it up if you're interested or you can search on it right away at movies.ign.com.  It also has the most recent news on the Bioshock movie.

But not to veer off the track, thanks for the perspective.  I don't do it intentionally but I seem to post reactionary thread titles and I get great and valuable feedback from those who have comtemplated this also, much respect.  Very cool. :)

right on bro, I'll be waiting anxiously for the sequel myself. The first game ended up being one of the most enjoyable experiences I've had this generation so I definately know where you're coming from. Here's to hoping the sequel does justice to the original.

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As leader of P.A.P.A. the Z-day A-Team I endorse this message.

i hope this is not another way of making me buy a game just so that we have the option to play multiplayer. It is dissapointing when you take a great story and turn it into something useless since thet reason I loved bioshock was for its story and gameplay.

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"Glitching is fun , when your'e good at it."

I'm willing to give BioShock 2 a chance, seeing how much i love BioShock. But i completely hate the idea of a sequel. If there's something  would really like to see, it would be: playable flashbacks where you could explore Rapture before hell broke lose

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Join the Gathering at:www.theoriginalgathering.com

 Jazm1990 wrote:

I'm willing to give BioShock 2 a chance, seeing how much i love BioShock. But i completely hate the idea of a sequel. If there's something  would really like to see, it would be: playable flashbacks where you could explore Rapture before hell broke lose

I'm with you.  Although these guys who responded here do have some good arguments as to why it might be good.  I had signed off this game completely but now I think you're right, I'll at least keep an eye on it and then maybe, buy.

I definitely thought some kind of prequel or look back might be good.  Never thought about flashbacks for it though, that would definitely be a plus.  I guess we'll see what we get. :)

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What if...I became a Spectre? Conrad...I haven't been shot in the head nearly enough times to think that's a good idea.

 Tormented Sky wrote:

 Jazm1990 wrote:

I'm willing to give BioShock 2 a chance, seeing how much i love BioShock. But i completely hate the idea of a sequel. If there's something  would really like to see, it would be: playable flashbacks where you could explore Rapture before hell broke lose

I'm with you.  Although these guys who responded here do have some good arguments as to why it might be good.  I had signed off this game completely but now I think you're right, I'll at least keep an eye on it and then maybe, buy.

I definitely thought some kind of prequel or look back might be good.  Never thought about flashbacks for it though, that would definitely be a plus.  I guess we'll see what we get. :)

Did you watch the new GTTV video that just aired? The story doesn't revolve around only the big sister it revolves around someone who Ryan had a lot of disagreements with

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Xbox Forum Regs: http://www.mygamercard.net/clboard.php?id=AwqkxwIi
Winner of the Forum Reg GS Challenge V7

 Judge Bergan wrote:

 Tormented Sky wrote:

 Jazm1990 wrote:

I'm willing to give BioShock 2 a chance, seeing how much i love BioShock. But i completely hate the idea of a sequel. If there's something  would really like to see, it would be: playable flashbacks where you could explore Rapture before hell broke lose

I'm with you.  Although these guys who responded here do have some good arguments as to why it might be good.  I had signed off this game completely but now I think you're right, I'll at least keep an eye on it and then maybe, buy.

I definitely thought some kind of prequel or look back might be good.  Never thought about flashbacks for it though, that would definitely be a plus.  I guess we'll see what we get. :)

Did you watch the new GTTV video that just aired? The story doesn't revolve around only the big sister it revolves around someone who Ryan had a lot of disagreements with

No I haven't, I will check it out, thanks!!

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What if...I became a Spectre? Conrad...I haven't been shot in the head nearly enough times to think that's a good idea.

 Jazm1990 wrote:

I'm willing to give BioShock 2 a chance, seeing how much i love BioShock. But i completely hate the idea of a sequel. If there's something  would really like to see, it would be: playable flashbacks where you could explore Rapture before hell broke lose

You love the first Bioshock, but you would hate to see a Bioshock sequel...wtf?
                       

 PsychoOrange wrote:

 Jazm1990 wrote:

I'm willing to give BioShock 2 a chance, seeing how much i love BioShock. But i completely hate the idea of a sequel. If there's something  would really like to see, it would be: playable flashbacks where you could explore Rapture before hell broke lose

You love the first Bioshock, but you would hate to see a Bioshock sequel...wtf?
                       

He's just concerned for how the story for the sequel is being handled.  If you really love a movie, and a sequel was being made by a hack director with no budget, would you even want a sequel?  Of course not.  That sequel would likely end up being crap and tarnishing the first film's reputation altogether.

 Phoenix0329 wrote:

I never liked the idea of a prequel.  1. We already know the story (at least the main overarching story, New Years Eve party, revolution, etc etc), so we'd be playing some sub story about some sub character and him being either for or against the revolution.  Meh, not very interesting imo.  2. What would the ending be?  Does the game end with the revolution?  Not a very climactic ending (again, just my opinion)

I agree with you that I'm not thrilled about playing as a big daddy in the 2nd one, but I'm cautiously optimistic to see where they go with it.  They could get very twisty with some things in this game, such as who the big sister is.  Is it Jack's sister, made from the same "milkshake"?  Is it a resurrected Jasmine Jolie?  Or if it's some random person, maybe someone is controlling them behind the scenes, maybe its Tenenbaum.  You get my point, with a sequel versus a prequel, there are many more unanswerable questions.  In a prequel, we know the whole time we're playing that it has to end with the revolution, which takes the suspense out of it.

Like I said, I remain cautiously optimistic. 

I think it's obvious, although I admit I could easily be wrong, that the Big Sister is the first Little Sister ever.  They've said there's a strong connection between our new character, and since he's the first Big Daddy...

As I said, I could be wrong.

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Before judging someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you judge them, you're a mile away and have their shoes.

Agreed. Bioshock was one of the few single player campaigns that really hit the nail on attention to detail. As I ventured deeper into Rapture, I grew more curious about its origins and history. This leaves a deep impression as a player. And if the sequel veers away from the original, it kind of ruins the overall experience of the series.

 Tormented Sky wrote:

Sorry but I tried to hold back on this a long time.  First, the team moved from Boston to Marin County.  Most of the thinking that goes into it won't be done by Austrailia.  Formally Irrational Games it was their freakin baby for Pete's sake, along with the mastermind Ken Levine.

Levine is a consultant on this one?  Haha yeah like listing a 3rd AD or Producer on a movie.

No, I think they botched it, they know it, and that's why they moved the date out.  What kills me, what really makes me squirm is, Levine set this all up for them in Marin County, no way they could have flubbed it.

But no, they have original ideas, sure! Xerox PARC isn't that far away, why not have original idea. :P

So, my argument...Levine showed us a fallen sign of 1959 New Year's Eve at the beginning of laying your eyes on the first part of the journey after the plane crash.  And an audio tape of Diane McClintock complaining about Ryan leaving her alone on New Year's Eve when...Fontaine's revolution happens!  You can hear Diane starting to freak out on the tape as she's watching the chaos.

Can you feel it?  Yes I'm taking Prequel.  The very perfect setting for that is now lost in this new Bioshock.  No, now we have a BIG sister coming back down to fight a BIG daddy.  Who gives a crapola about that?!  What we get to go outside, well we could have done that in the prequel possibly looking at some events during construction of Rapture.  Instead we had a previously dead Rapture that's still dead when we go back.  Been there done that. 

I'm convinced they're going to sell you a great, maybe fantastic looking game with lots of shooting and that's about it.  Basically selling out the great creation it once was.  Kids and parents of kids will buy this and they are counting on it.  But for you story loving fans, if you can convince yourself one sister came back down to Rapture, especially if you saving them all, and she has her own agenda to dominate and/or rule.  And...you're a Big Daddy now protecting a little sister.  That's it??  I think of myself as the biggest Bioshock fan of all time, too bad for me.

And why I mentioned 1959 specially, they could have tied in politics like Cuba going with Castro that year, or Hawaii and Alaska becoming states.  Some of these cultures could flee to Rapture to keep living they way they wanted before the changes, before the Ryan and Fontaine struggle begins.

 Now you ask, ok genius who could be the main character then?  Well I don't know, a younger Jack maybe?  Maybe a female character related to Jack we didn't know of before.  Jack was a DNA milkshake but was he the only one?

Anyway, these thoughts I don't expect to be revolutionary, I don't intend to influence your future purchase of the game, I just think they could have done WAY better then what we're getting.  My two cents.

I agree with you Bioshock 2's story (so far from what I've heard) is a joke.  So much of it sounds like it was designed by committee.  I'm not big on your prequel idea, I would rather see a whole new take on rapture.

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1st person EVER to 100% 4 instruments on EXPERT AT THE SAME TIME!