Claymore 61 wrote:

 Dan OXM wrote:

 Claymore 61 wrote:

I use mags and their websites for screenshots and video only,for honest game reviews I turn to friends who have it on their playlists.

So, in summary:

Your friends base their honest opinions on the games they've actually played, and then they tell you whether or not they like it.

OXM, meanwhile, bases its honest opinions on the games we've actually played, and then we tell you whether or not we like it.

Therefore, your friends are more trustworthy because they do exactly the same thing we do...? It sounds like there is bias at work here, but not on our end.

There is,my friends don't get paid for their opinions.

So you are dinging his opinion because he makes a living stating it?  I think I would value the opinion of someone who has invested many hours/weeks/years into something to actually have a well educated rounded opinion of something rather then some jaded, trying-to-sound cool Internet buddy.

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I find that I generally agree more with what these folks say than my friends: Paul Curthoys (OXM), Scott Butterworth (PTOM), Dan Amrich (OXM), the Area5.tv guys, Thierry Nguyen (1up), Kevin Van Ord (GameSpot), Greg Miller (IGN), Anthony Gallegos (GameSpy), and Andy Eddy (TeamXbox).

These guys all share interests that at least similarly reflect mine, so when I read one of their reviews I'm more inclined to take them seriously than one of my buddy's who, and this is a specific, real example, loves something to death if it exists... and is something he invests in. Everything sucks until he spends money on it, and then it becomes the holiest of all holies.

Contrastly, I have a friend who I can't gauge, ever. He loves the usual stuff, but then anomalies like Street Fighter IV and Mirror's Edge, stuff I wouldn't expect him to have a passing interest in, become games he enjoys quite a bit. So if he recommends something to me, I'm at least willing to give it a shot, where my other buddy's choice in games is totally moot to me since I don't know whether it's legitimately good or if it's something he bought and is forcing himself to enjoy.

I'm not saying critics > friends, but for me, I can relate to these people who are more invested in games and have a similar manner of thinking.

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 PeeKnuckle wrote:

 Claymore 61 wrote:I use mags and their websites for screenshots and video only,for honest game reviews I turn to friends who have it on their playlists. Claymore 61 wrote:I still read the reviews and check out screenshots,then I compare writers opinions to friends and base my purchase on the balance of input I received.

So, which is it?

Its a balance of both,leaning more towards the opinions of over 75 different ppl,from various educational backgrounds.Its definitely not relying on just a couple of uneducated buddies who from what Kat seems to think are some sort of inferior species when compared to the wise writers of OXM.

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 Claymore 61 wrote:

 PeeKnuckle wrote:

 Claymore 61 wrote:I use mags and their websites for screenshots and video only,for honest game reviews I turn to friends who have it on their playlists. Claymore 61 wrote:I still read the reviews and check out screenshots,then I compare writers opinions to friends and base my purchase on the balance of input I received.

So, which is it?

Its a balance of both,leaning more towards the opinions of over 75 different ppl,from various educational backgrounds.Its definitely not relying on just a couple of uneducated buddies who from what Kat seems to think are some sort of inferior species when compared to the wise writers of OXM.

Well good for you.  We all have the right to listen to who we choose.   Seems like you already have those who you listen to and trust.  What exactly is your point now?

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Then maybe the use of the word, "only", was in error. That's cool if it was. I make errors all the time.

If it's a sculpted counterpoint though, then I'm not interested. We can all do that and raise our CUL's till our fingers go numb. I'm all for debates with integrity. If a valid point is made, I will concede and let them know that they made a fair and honest point. There were many valid points made in this thread. Points that have been made over and over since this forum began. These are not malleable points, or spin. They have integrity. They've never changed or wavered.

I'll stick with the old go to answer for this part of the forums. You're free to stop reading the magazine and it's reviews, at any time. You're also free to send XBL PM's to 75 of your online friends, asking them what they thought of Space Giraffe. I am sure, that they have all played it through to the end, and can offer you the best opinions possible.

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 kiki kat wrote:

 Claymore 61 wrote:

 Dan OXM wrote:

 Claymore 61 wrote:

I use mags and their websites for screenshots and video only,for honest game reviews I turn to friends who have it on their playlists.

So, in summary:

Your friends base their honest opinions on the games they've actually played, and then they tell you whether or not they like it.

OXM, meanwhile, bases its honest opinions on the games we've actually played, and then we tell you whether or not we like it.

Therefore, your friends are more trustworthy because they do exactly the same thing we do...? It sounds like there is bias at work here, but not on our end.

There is,my friends don't get paid for their opinions.

So you are dinging his opinion because he makes a living stating it?  I think I would value the opinion of someone who has invested many hours/weeks/years into something to actually have a well educated rounded opinion of something rather then some jaded, trying-to-sound cool Internet buddy.

You seem to think that my friend's opinion is should not be valued as much as a OXM writers,because they are just "jaded,trying to sound cool internet buddies",believe me my friends are beyond the phase of acting cool to impress anyone.

I may be wrong about the writers being biased,and bowing to MS wishes,that I will never know for sure.Like you assuming all my friends are just trying to be "tech cool",when in fact they just say what the game was to them.

I admit that,writers have a talent,that took yrs of schooling to perfect,this is true,but it does not make them a better judge of what others will enjoy,it makes them better at expressing their views on what can be enjoyed.

I am not talented enough to write down my exact point in one sitting.The next time I will try to outline my thoughts before drafting them and then to assure that I have them the way I intend them to be taken,I will proof read and edit as needed.

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 Claymore 61 wrote:

<snip>The next time I will try to outline my thoughts before drafting them and then to assure that I have them the way I intend them to be taken,I will proof read and edit as needed.

Sweet.  Thanks!  That is much appreciated

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 Claymore 61 wrote:

I admit that,writers have a talent,that took yrs of schooling to perfect,this is true,but it does not make them a better judge of what others will enjoy,it makes them better at expressing their views on what can be enjoyed.

My view is that their experience leads to them being a better judge of a game than me. I don't have the ability to automatically judge whether a game will be fun for me or not. (Nor does anyone for that matter, not just you.) Thus using OXM as a tool to help me decide what I buy in conjuction with other review sites and word of mouth can help me decide what's the best for me.

That's why this trust thing is somewhat important, because if I don't establish that relationship that Ryan most closely resembles my likings with FPS's, then I might as well ask a random person off the street, or ask a hundred and get a consensus. Same for IGN, (former) EGM, and more.

Do know that I understand everything that you're saying, you're just coming off a little too harsh for most people here. Like the prostitute thing went a little overboard on both ends... Eh, well.

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Warning to those who may disagree with the OP and other posters in this thread:<snip>

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 El Leon 7x7 wrote:

 Claymore 61 wrote:

I admit that,writers have a talent,that took yrs of schooling to perfect,this is true,but it does not make them a better judge of what others will enjoy,it makes them better at expressing their views on what can be enjoyed.

My view is that their experience leads to them being a better judge of a game than me. I don't have the ability to automatically judge whether a game will be fun for me or not. (Nor does anyone for that matter, not just you.) Thus using OXM as a tool to help me decide what I buy in conjuction with other review sites and word of mouth can help me decide what's the best for me.

That's why this trust thing is somewhat important, because if I don't establish that relationship that Ryan most closely resembles my likings with FPS's, then I might as well ask a random person off the street, or ask a hundred and get a consensus. Same for IGN, (former) EGM, and more.

Do know that I understand everything that you're saying, you're just coming off a little too harsh for most people here. Like the prostitute thing went a little overboard on both ends... Eh, well.

Agreed. To me the OXM, Gamespot, and IGN writers usually are the ones that persuade me what to get or check out. They've learned what makes a game good and what hurts the game. In my honest opinion I think I trust The WRITERS more than anyone else. Most of my friends just play CoD anyways. Plus whenever I read user reviews I always see "This Game Blows" or "This game iz da shizzez". Gets really annoying sometimes when all I read are one lined user reviews. Thats why I like to read OXM and all the others out their because they talk about strong points and weak points and they like to break the game down. Plus they usually provide with a good read
BTW, I just wanted to say thanks to Dan for all the work he does for/on OXM.

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Bottom line, if you are going off of nothing more than a score, you are going to be severly limited in the games you will find enjoyable. Read the actual review to get an idea of what the game will be like, and base your decisions on an amalgamation of past experiences and current taste. Why is this so hard to understand for some people? Even if you dont trust the reviewers opinion, there will be facts meshed into the review, it's unavoidable.

My review for Turning Point: Fall of Liberty:
A herky-jerky and unevenly paced FPS with cropping and other graphical issues. If you are looking for another WWII shooter with a different story, you may be able to look past the problems with the gameplay, but with so many other capable shooters out there, why bother?

My review for Civilization Revolution:
A substantially scaled back version of the PC Civilization series, what this game lacks in complication, it makes up in its colorfully light presentation and it's hidden depth. CivRev takes turn based strategy into a direction not yet seen in a retail 360 game and is likely to be enjoyed by those who may not necessarily be a fan of the genre.

See? I have my opinion in there, and its easy to tell which game I would prefer, but there is not much to dispute (actually you could brobably find a hole or two in the Turning Point as I've only played the demo). I could add in comparisons and expand on the games more, but I'm no writer. Point is, you seem to expect more than what you are getting out of the magazine, and I guess your problems must expand past the reviews.

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 Claymore 61 wrote:

 Claymore 61 wrote:

I still read the reviews and check out screenshots,then I compare writers opinions to friends and base my purchase on the balance of input I received.

A example is the new arcade FF game,while it received alot of bad reviews from websites and magazines alot of my friends love it,and I too enjoyed the demo alot,plus there is a thread where alot of forum members are expressing their opinions on the bad press it got,and they all are saying they thought the reviewers never really gave the game a fair shake.

This is a great example of reviewers trying to steer the public away from a awesome game.

It's not a good example until you cite A) the name of the game (Final Fight? Fantastic Four? Final Fantasy? First to Fight?) and B) which outlets you're talking about. You are still saying "the media" and talking about "there is a thread" without telling us what the thread is. You have nothing specific to back up your example, which makes it not great at all, but pretty poor.

When I review a game, I have to get specific. Could you please do the same?

BTW, nice way to accuse me of spin while diverting attention. I love people who argue that way -- the minute they don't have a logical point, they turn it into misdirection and accuse the other person of being manipulative. I'd rather you drop that schtick and we just have a discussion about this.

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There is only one new FF game available in the arcade,a Final Fantasy game.Nice bump tho.

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You see what I did there? I gave my opinion without being so negative on other posters. I don't like it when people come on a opinionated thread and bash people for giving their opinion. Just state yours and move on.

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 nickba wrote:

 El Leon 7x7 wrote:

 Claymore 61 wrote:

I admit that,writers have a talent,that took yrs of schooling to perfect,this is true,but it does not make them a better judge of what others will enjoy,it makes them better at expressing their views on what can be enjoyed.

My view is that their experience leads to them being a better judge of a game than me. I don't have the ability to automatically judge whether a game will be fun for me or not. (Nor does anyone for that matter, not just you.) Thus using OXM as a tool to help me decide what I buy in conjuction with other review sites and word of mouth can help me decide what's the best for me.

That's why this trust thing is somewhat important, because if I don't establish that relationship that Ryan most closely resembles my likings with FPS's, then I might as well ask a random person off the street, or ask a hundred and get a consensus. Same for IGN, (former) EGM, and more.

Do know that I understand everything that you're saying, you're just coming off a little too harsh for most people here. Like the prostitute thing went a little overboard on both ends... Eh, well.

Agreed. To me the OXM, Gamespot, and IGN writers usually are the ones that persuade me what to get or check out. They've learned what makes a game good and what hurts the game. In my honest opinion I think I trust The WRITERS more than anyone else. Most of my friends just play CoD anyways. Plus whenever I read user reviews I always see "This Game Blows" or "This game iz da shizzez". Gets really annoying sometimes when all I read are one lined user reviews. Thats why I like to read OXM and all the others out their because they talk about strong points and weak points and they like to break the game down. Plus they usually provide with a good read
BTW, I just wanted to say thanks to Dan for all the work he does for/on OXM.

You see what I did there? I gave my opinion without being so negative on other posters. I don't like it when people come on a opinionated thread and bash people for giving their opinion. Just state yours and move on.

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Sorry for the double post guys.

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 Claymore 61 wrote:

There is only one new FF game available in the arcade,a Final Fantasy game.Nice bump tho.

I missed the word "arcade" in your post, so I apologize for that. But it's not the only FF arcade game anyway; it's one of four. There's also Fatal Fury Special, Feeding Frenzy, and Feeding Frenzy 2. But now that we have that established and I understand what game you're talking about, how about the rest of the data to back up your example? Sorry about the late bump, but I don't check the forums daily.

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Excellent point, I can say I have developed a trusting realationship with OXM after reading for the past few years, listening to the podcast, and even talking to you guys on XBL and the forums.

Reviews seem far more effective when you know where the reviewer is coming from.

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