There seems to be some confusion in the debate going on here.  Nobody wants MS to ban folks for swearing and general cursing.  They don't want an Orweillian society where every little word is scrutinized.  Where people are wanting MS to step up to the plate and create a better system is for the race, nationality, and lifestyle orientation bashing that so freely flows over the headsets on Live. 

 

Telling someone to shut the f up is way different from degrading someone's race or lifestyle preference with the derogatory comments that most of society already finds unacceptable in public discourse.  Degrading others through hate speech with no repercussion is the issue at hand.  And from the outside, for MS to not actively police this horrible behavior only creates the appearance of acceptance.  If you can't draw the difference between the two, maybe this debate isn't your cup of tea. 

 

All folks are looking for is for MS to step up and create a system that enforces what we all agree to at signup.  The system as it stands isn't working to slow/stop the hate, so why shouldn't we expect MS to be proactive on the issue instead of them expecting us to do it?  We game to have fun, not file reports against hate-mongerers all day long, and we don't believe it is an unreal expectation to expect MS to be proactive in enforcing their ToU.

---

GamerDads

"Good Game" Anything less . . . is uncivilized.

They should have more people (adults) who play alot as moderators. they should have the power to go into a control panel and give a day or 2 voice ban. And if its a more serious problem, team killing, glitching, causing all out problems. be able to send in a report and then have it reviewed and the right action taken. I have moderated on plenty of sites and it helps out 90% of the time. MS also should send out a message so when everyone comes on xbox live, they see that there is moderators watching. I have know that there was a few, but no one believes when you tell them. And some games you cant kick someone out who is being bad.

But the point is that in a free society, what is and isn't acceptable is heavily subjective.  This is why it takes a group of complaints to ban someone.  It's also why our country adopted a jury system where a person is convicted by a group.

If I was listening to a NAS album while playing on LIVE and singing along, then based on many of the requests here, I'd be banned.  However I don't see you walking into the record store asking them to deny me sale of the album. 

You're all asking for a system that already exists.  The system allows users to report hateful and offensive communication which when reviewed results in the user being banned.  If xbox live users were using the system properly then it would result in more bans.  Microsoft is doing their part, you are not.

It almost seems like you guys want a system where Tom Cruise pops in and sentences the offender before the words have a chance to escape their mouths.

Contrary to what was said earlier, Microsoft is not the be all and end all.  They are a software company that provides a service allowing you to connect and play games with people accross the world.  Bigotry will not end no matter how many people feel the wrath of the banhammer.   

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

But the point is that in a free society, what is and isn't acceptable is heavily subjective.  This is why it takes a group of complaints to ban someone.  It's also why our country adopted a jury system where a person is convicted by a group.

If I was listening to a NAS album while playing on LIVE and singing along, then based on many of the requests here, I'd be banned.  However I don't see you walking into the record store asking them to deny me sale of the album. 

You're all asking for a system that already exists.  The system allows users to report hateful and offensive communication which when reviewed results in the user being banned.  If xbox live users were using the system properly then it would result in more bans.  Microsoft is doing their part, you are not.

It almost seems like you guys want a system where Tom Cruise pops in and sentences the offender before the words have a chance to escape their mouths.

Contrary to what was said earlier, Microsoft is not the be all and end all.  They are a software company that provides a service allowing you to connect and play games with people accross the world.  Bigotry will not end no matter how many people feel the wrath of the banhammer.   

 We been talking for a cpl of pages and im trying to get a grip on what your talking about (your mind set). It seems your why off in left field. Can i ask how old you are?

If i go to Sam Goody i can by NAS but they are not playing it over the speakers right ( dirty songs)? 

Next question lets say your mom comes over for dinner and your telling her about how great the 360 is and she ask to play UNO. So you set her up for a live game of UNO . Before you can blink 2 players have showed your MOM there junk. The other person is talking bad about blk or whts or what ever. Question how would you feel, how would you feel if it was your daughter or son or wife?

---

*GAMERDADZ*

mmmmm plasma

LIVE, while a reflection of and including members of society, is not society as a whole.  WE are not asking for judge jury and executioner all in one.  You again missed on your metaphor...that would Judge Dredd. 

We understand that bigotry will not end, but accepting it is there and doing nothing...it makes you complicit in the act.  And please stop saying the same thing...that is Rovish ( see Swiftboating); "If I keeping saying something that is untrue over and over then it will be percieved as the truth".  The system does not work.  If people are not using the syestem and the system is predicated on people using it...the system is not working.  People do not log on to play cop...at least not when it pertains to the real world.  The system is poorly planned and the responsibility is shifted to the wrong side.


Let me save you a post...

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN:

Big Brother....Microsoft has done their job...Big Brother...movie or cultural reference or analogy that kind of works, but not really, Big Brother

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

Question for you Mo Moss.  How do you prevent someone from showing their junk on the camera?  Explain to me how Microsoft could prevent that first instance from happening.  You can't, you can only punish them after the fact.  There are absolutely no proactive steps that can be taken to keep someone from flashing you. You are very naive to think that it can ever be stopped.  As a parent I would hope you wouldn't sit your child down in from of a live game of UNO with the camera active just the same as I would hope you wouldn't set them down in a chat room unattended.  Wake up man, the internet is not a safe place.  You might be in your living room but you have no idea who else's living room you are connecting to.

By the way I'm 29 and very well educated.  While I'm at it I'd like to introduce you to my friend, his name is sarcasm.  he works hand in hand with a guy named exaggeration to show you how rediculous some of this stuff is.  Before you begin down the road of censorship/banning/whatever, you have to ask yourself where it will stop. 

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

Question for you Mo Moss.  How do you prevent someone from showing their junk on the camera?  Explain to me how Microsoft could prevent that first instance from happening.  You can't, you can only punish them after the fact.  There are absolutely no proactive steps that can be taken to keep someone from flashing you. You are very naive to think that it can ever be stopped.  As a parent I would hope you wouldn't sit your child down in from of a live game of UNO with the camera active just the same as I would hope you wouldn't set them down in a chat room unattended.  Wake up man, the internet is not a safe place.  You might be in your living room but you have no idea who else's living room you are connecting to.

By the way I'm 29 and very well educated.  While I'm at it I'd like to introduce you to my friend, his name is sarcasm.  he works hand in hand with a guy named exaggeration to show you how rediculous some of this stuff is.  Before you begin down the road of censorship/banning/whatever, you have to ask yourself where it will stop. 

makes sense...

Here is the thing...we know you cannot do a thing prior to the act.  But if someone from MS were policing and they saw that the guy ( or girl) should be gone.  Of course it is crazy to assume you can stop it beforehand.  But to punish someone for what they have done, that is just common sense.  You keep talking about Live as society.  To punch another hole in that theory:  Do you have militia and mob breaking up crime and punishing where you live?  Or is it a group of professionals that do the job.  As I said your analogy is false, which makes mine moot as well.  Just wanted to show you that you need to connect the dots.

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

 MO MOSS wrote:

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

But the point is that in a free society, what is and isn't acceptable is heavily subjective.  This is why it takes a group of complaints to ban someone.  It's also why our country adopted a jury system where a person is convicted by a group.

If I was listening to a NAS album while playing on LIVE and singing along, then based on many of the requests here, I'd be banned.  However I don't see you walking into the record store asking them to deny me sale of the album. 

You're all asking for a system that already exists.  The system allows users to report hateful and offensive communication which when reviewed results in the user being banned.  If xbox live users were using the system properly then it would result in more bans.  Microsoft is doing their part, you are not.

It almost seems like you guys want a system where Tom Cruise pops in and sentences the offender before the words have a chance to escape their mouths.

Contrary to what was said earlier, Microsoft is not the be all and end all.  They are a software company that provides a service allowing you to connect and play games with people accross the world.  Bigotry will not end no matter how many people feel the wrath of the banhammer.   

 We been talking for a cpl of pages and im trying to get a grip on what your talking about (your mind set). It seems your why off in left field. Can i ask how old you are?

If i go to Sam Goody i can by NAS but they are not playing it over the speakers right ( dirty songs)? 

Next question lets say your mom comes over for dinner and your telling her about how great the 360 is and she ask to play UNO. So you set her up for a live game of UNO . Before you can blink 2 players have showed your MOM there junk. The other person is talking bad about blk or whts or what ever. Question how would you feel, how would you feel if it was your daughter or son or wife?

I would like to answer your questons but first you need to answer the ones i asked. If your 29 i would think you would have a better understanding of the world.  Ive been around  the world and imo most people are good people at heart.

---

*GAMERDADZ*

mmmmm plasma

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

Question for you Mo Moss.  How do you prevent someone from showing their junk on the camera?  Explain to me how Microsoft could prevent that first instance from happening.  You can't, you can only punish them after the fact.  There are absolutely no proactive steps that can be taken to keep someone from flashing you. You are very naive to think that it can ever be stopped.  As a parent I would hope you wouldn't sit your child down in from of a live game of UNO with the camera active just the same as I would hope you wouldn't set them down in a chat room unattended.  Wake up man, the internet is not a safe place.  You might be in your living room but you have no idea who else's living room you are connecting to.

By the way I'm 29 and very well educated.  While I'm at it I'd like to introduce you to my friend, his name is sarcasm.  he works hand in hand with a guy named exaggeration to show you how rediculous some of this stuff is.  Before you begin down the road of censorship/banning/whatever, you have to ask yourself where it will stop. 

Proactive does not mean just act, but have a proper plan in place to deal with things.  I fact the perpare for is the first part listed in definitions...not intervene which is what I think you are taking it as.  If we were not clear on this, I am sorry.  But I think Captain Carjack addressed that at the top of the page.

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

But the point is that in a free society, what is and isn't acceptable is heavily subjective.  This is why it takes a group of complaints to ban someone.  It's also why our country adopted a jury system where a person is convicted by a group.

But Xbox Live is not a "free society", it is a community put in place by a corporation with rules set forth by the corporation which are not being enforced in any sort of truly managed way.  It's like having the police just sitting at the station until someone calls, never patrolling the streets on the lookout for other crimes that may be happening in the dark alleys with no witnesses. 

---

Post provided "as is" and confers no rights.

The Truth In Gaming

 lostassassin13 wrote:

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

But the point is that in a free society, what is and isn't acceptable is heavily subjective.  This is why it takes a group of complaints to ban someone.  It's also why our country adopted a jury system where a person is convicted by a group.

But Xbox Live is not a "free society", it is a community put in place by a corporation with rules set forth by the corporation which are not being enforced in any sort of truly managed way.  It's like having the police just sitting at the station until someone calls, never patrolling the streets on the lookout for other crimes that may be happening in the dark alleys with no witnesses. 

 great point!

---

*GAMERDADZ*

mmmmm plasma

I too have been around the world and have lived with different cultures on different continents.  I'm stunned at the cynicism I'm facing here but as the saying goes, arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics.  I'm not the enemy here yet I am being painted as one with each additional post.

There is this cry going out for Microsoft to step in and do something.  All I'm saying is that they are doing something.  Do a search about banning and you'll see that people are being banned daily for multiple reasons, thanks to the system that is in place whereby users are able to report offensive behaviour when it happens.  I've had people on my friends list banned for curse words in their bio.  A user on my friends list was asked to change their name because it was considered offensive.  Heck, a friend of mine with the last name of Beane, couldn't name his character Beaner on rock band because it was deemed to be an offensive slur.

Perhaps this response isn't quick enough for you but as I've stated about a million times (hello exaggeration), Microsoft cannot and should not act on a single complaint.  Otherwise I could file an unjustified complaint against you now and ban your account.

I'm sorry that you feel this isn't sufficient action but it's possibly the fairest, most middle of the road, democratic approach that Microsoft can take.  Your beef shouldn't be with MS but with the millions of users out there that are too lazy to press the little "file complaint" button.

If you're looking for proactivity then by all means, start at home.  Start partying up and playing with friends and people you trust.  Don't turn on the camera to strangers.  If you open a message from someone you don't know, be prepared for anything.     

 

 lostassassin13 wrote:

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

But the point is that in a free society, what is and isn't acceptable is heavily subjective.  This is why it takes a group of complaints to ban someone.  It's also why our country adopted a jury system where a person is convicted by a group.

But Xbox Live is not a "free society", it is a community put in place by a corporation with rules set forth by the corporation which are not being enforced in any sort of truly managed way.  It's like having the police just sitting at the station until someone calls, never patrolling the streets on the lookout for other crimes that may be happening in the dark alleys with no witnesses. 

I would also like to point out that just because crime still exists, it doesn't mean the police aren't doing their job. 

MR MOJ0 R1SIN

Are you having trouble answering my question?

Im off to a meeting! cheers be back in an hour.

---

*GAMERDADZ*

mmmmm plasma

 MO MOSS wrote:

MR MOJ0 R1SIN

Are you having trouble answering my question?

Im off to a meeting! cheers be back in an hour.

What question?  The question about how I would feel?  Well I'd be irate of course.  However I would also feel like a bad parent/son if I placed my child/mother down in front of the camera with strangers.  You see, I'm not naive enough to think that the internet is a secure place.  I'm also mature enough to take responsibility for my actions.

I hope that answer is good enough for you.  Thanks for trying to call me out.

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

 lostassassin13 wrote:

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

But the point is that in a free society, what is and isn't acceptable is heavily subjective.  This is why it takes a group of complaints to ban someone.  It's also why our country adopted a jury system where a person is convicted by a group.

But Xbox Live is not a "free society", it is a community put in place by a corporation with rules set forth by the corporation which are not being enforced in any sort of truly managed way.  It's like having the police just sitting at the station until someone calls, never patrolling the streets on the lookout for other crimes that may be happening in the dark alleys with no witnesses. 

I would also like to point out that just because crime still exists, it doesn't mean the police aren't doing their job. 

Valid.  But in that scenario there are people paid to do the job.  Here we all volunteer when we sign up.  They are different situations in the way the job gets done.  We get that you are fine that some guy threatens to *** a gamerchix member after she beats him.  I have been in a room beforehand where that has happened.  I was offended and used the system.  I am sure the gamerchix in the room did as well.  It was likely tossed out due to this-- potential ganging up.  Now you may try to rationalize...the guy could have done nothing---they are online not in person.  That is most likely true however that dingleberry tapped into most women's top fears.  I am sure it easy for you to brush off, more than likely, not for her.  The timber of her voice changed and she logged off.  Now it is likely that any M$ police may not have been present.  That is where a secondary protocol of user reporting would help.  But this guy was very pleased with himself for upsetting her and likely has done it before and will again.  If M$ policed he should be gone and combined with the user reports that should be enough for him to be sent away to play on Home at PS3.  See that is the endgame, if all bigots and aholes were banned they would lose money.  That is why the system is what it is.  The pay people to police, it costs them $.  They ban people, it costs them $.

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

I'd like to take one more moment to introduce you all to another section of the Microsoft terms of service.  I only do this because it seems to be a part you have overlooked.  Remember by signing up for this, you agreed to these terms as well:

Microsoft has no obligation to monitor the Communication Services. However, Microsoft reserves the right to review materials posted to a Communication Service and to remove any materials in its sole discretion. Microsoft reserves the right to terminate your access to any or all of the Communication Services at any time without notice for any reason whatsoever.

Always use caution when giving out any personally identifying information about yourself or your children in any Communication Service. Microsoft does not control or endorse the content, messages or information found in any Communication Service and, therefore, Microsoft specifically disclaims any liability with regard to the Communication Services and any actions resulting from your participation in any Communication Service. Managers and hosts are not authorized Microsoft spokespersons, and their views do not necessarily reflect those of Microsoft.

Nien Numb

Let me ask you, did you follow up to see if the guy was banned or are you simply making an assumption that he got off scott free because that's the perception you want to hold about microsoft and the live service?

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

I'd like to take one more moment to introduce you all to another section of the Microsoft terms of service.  I only do this because it seems to be a part you have overlooked.  Remember by signing up for this, you agreed to these terms as well:

Microsoft has no obligation to monitor the Communication Services. However, Microsoft reserves the right to review materials posted to a Communication Service and to remove any materials in its sole discretion. Microsoft reserves the right to terminate your access to any or all of the Communication Services at any time without notice for any reason whatsoever.

Always use caution when giving out any personally identifying information about yourself or your children in any Communication Service. Microsoft does not control or endorse the content, messages or information found in any Communication Service and, therefore, Microsoft specifically disclaims any liability with regard to the Communication Services and any actions resulting from your participation in any Communication Service. Managers and hosts are not authorized Microsoft spokespersons, and their views do not necessarily reflect those of Microsoft.

It's called CYA.  And it does not excuse the policies.  I feel like I am at the end of a Scooby Doo episode.  I have to ask who are you in the real world @ M$?  You are just too "Toe the line" to not have a vested interest.  You know there is a thing called editing and admitting that a policy does not work.  M$ seems to want to follow W's lead and just put their heads down and pretend all is well.

We want to change things from within.  If need be we will go to the media, but that will be good for noone.  You know they will blow it out of proportion, but if need be, so be it.  See in between Election and Black Friday pieces there is likely to be a new lull.  Nothing like gaming is promoting bigotry to get the medias attention.  I would hate for it to get to that point, but all signs point to that being the begining of the endgame.  So you can be a lemming and act like the ledge is a good place to go, or you can join in and say " at least look at the current protocol."

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

Nien Numb

Let me ask you, did you follow up to see if the guy was banned or are you simply making an assumption that he got off scott free because that's the perception you want to hold about microsoft and the live service?

I did not follow up with the ban.  The agents who I spoke with about the issues ( who evidently hold no weight based on your prior post) said that multiple reports, esp with Friends ( who have the right to be offended and post) usually mean that they will assume cyber bullying.  If you send me an idea of how to check on this I will be sure to do so in the future. 

EDIT:  I have a perception of the service based on my interactions with CS and a few members of the Live team who I will not call out on forums.  Let's just say they want me to drink the Blood of Kali and just chant as hearts get ripped out...no thanks.

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

 Nien Numb wrote:

See in between Election and Black Friday pieces there is likely to be a new lull.  Nothing like gaming is promoting bigotry to get the medias attention.  I would hate for it to get to that point, but all signs point to that being the begining of the endgame.  So you can be a lemming and act like the ledge is a good place to go, or you can join in and say " at least look at the current protocol."

I wholly agree with this. Just because the policy is in place doesn't mean it can't be rectified or amended. And as a gamer yourself, you have a vested interest in keeping media/politicians from blowing up a "video games promote hate" that could harm the industry.

---

cookingzombies.com
on twitter

 Nien Numb wrote:

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

Nien Numb

Let me ask you, did you follow up to see if the guy was banned or are you simply making an assumption that he got off scott free because that's the perception you want to hold about microsoft and the live service?

I did not follow up with the ban.  The agents who I spoke with about the issues ( who evidently hold no weight based on your prior post) said that multiple reports, esp with Friends ( who have the right to be offended and post) usually mean that they will assume cyber bullying.  If you send me an idea of how to check on this I will be sure to do so in the future. 

The only way I could think of is to do a search on that guy's gamertag to see if it still exists.  Based on one comment made, you leapt to a huge assumption that MS did not properly follow up and ban the guy. 

 CookingZombies wrote:

 Nien Numb wrote:

See in between Election and Black Friday pieces there is likely to be a new lull.  Nothing like gaming is promoting bigotry to get the medias attention.  I would hate for it to get to that point, but all signs point to that being the begining of the endgame.  So you can be a lemming and act like the ledge is a good place to go, or you can join in and say " at least look at the current protocol."

I wholly agree with this. Just because the policy is in place doesn't mean it can't be rectified or amended. And as a gamer yourself, you have a vested interest in keeping media/politicians from blowing up a "video games promote hate" that could harm the industry.

I agree, I don't want to do that.  It is an endgame that seems more likely though.  It is being planned as a last resort, but as it is now...it cannot stay that way it is.

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

 Nien Numb wrote:

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

I'd like to take one more moment to introduce you all to another section of the Microsoft terms of service.  I only do this because it seems to be a part you have overlooked.  Remember by signing up for this, you agreed to these terms as well:

Microsoft has no obligation to monitor the Communication Services. However, Microsoft reserves the right to review materials posted to a Communication Service and to remove any materials in its sole discretion. Microsoft reserves the right to terminate your access to any or all of the Communication Services at any time without notice for any reason whatsoever.

Always use caution when giving out any personally identifying information about yourself or your children in any Communication Service. Microsoft does not control or endorse the content, messages or information found in any Communication Service and, therefore, Microsoft specifically disclaims any liability with regard to the Communication Services and any actions resulting from your participation in any Communication Service. Managers and hosts are not authorized Microsoft spokespersons, and their views do not necessarily reflect those of Microsoft.

It's called CYA.  And it does not excuse the policies.  I feel like I am at the end of a Scooby Doo episode.  I have to ask who are you in the real world @ M$?  You are just too "Toe the line" to not have a vested interest.  You know there is a thing called editing and admitting that a policy does not work.  M$ seems to want to follow W's lead and just put their heads down and pretend all is well.

We want to change things from within.  If need be we will go to the media, but that will be good for noone.  You know they will blow it out of proportion, but if need be, so be it.  See in between Election and Black Friday pieces there is likely to be a new lull.  Nothing like gaming is promoting bigotry to get the medias attention.  I would hate for it to get to that point, but all signs point to that being the begining of the endgame.  So you can be a lemming and act like the ledge is a good place to go, or you can join in and say " at least look at the current protocol."

I really don't care what you want to call it.  Of course it's a CYA statement, but it's part of the terms of service that you yourself agreed to when signing up and paying for this service.  It's hypocritical to only focus on one section of the terms without taking into account all the policies in place.

I don't blame you for wanting a perfect world but Microsoft is not responsible for giving that to you.

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

 Nien Numb wrote:

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

Nien Numb

Let me ask you, did you follow up to see if the guy was banned or are you simply making an assumption that he got off scott free because that's the perception you want to hold about microsoft and the live service?

I did not follow up with the ban.  The agents who I spoke with about the issues ( who evidently hold no weight based on your prior post) said that multiple reports, esp with Friends ( who have the right to be offended and post) usually mean that they will assume cyber bullying.  If you send me an idea of how to check on this I will be sure to do so in the future. 

The only way I could think of is to do a search on that guy's gamertag to see if it still exists.  Based on one comment made, you leapt to a huge assumption that MS did not properly follow up and ban the guy. 

No, the tone of the voice and refusal to be forthcoming on all levels made it so it is a valid assumption.  Why is there not more openess on this?  Of course we do not want blacklisting, but a message that says that it is being handled.  Some Customer Service being put back into Customer Service?  That would be great. 

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

Valid or not it's still an assumption.  You do not have conclusive evidence to prove one way or another.

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

 Nien Numb wrote:

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

I'd like to take one more moment to introduce you all to another section of the Microsoft terms of service.  I only do this because it seems to be a part you have overlooked.  Remember by signing up for this, you agreed to these terms as well:

Microsoft has no obligation to monitor the Communication Services. However, Microsoft reserves the right to review materials posted to a Communication Service and to remove any materials in its sole discretion. Microsoft reserves the right to terminate your access to any or all of the Communication Services at any time without notice for any reason whatsoever.

Always use caution when giving out any personally identifying information about yourself or your children in any Communication Service. Microsoft does not control or endorse the content, messages or information found in any Communication Service and, therefore, Microsoft specifically disclaims any liability with regard to the Communication Services and any actions resulting from your participation in any Communication Service. Managers and hosts are not authorized Microsoft spokespersons, and their views do not necessarily reflect those of Microsoft.

It's called CYA.  And it does not excuse the policies.  I feel like I am at the end of a Scooby Doo episode.  I have to ask who are you in the real world @ M$?  You are just too "Toe the line" to not have a vested interest.  You know there is a thing called editing and admitting that a policy does not work.  M$ seems to want to follow W's lead and just put their heads down and pretend all is well.

We want to change things from within.  If need be we will go to the media, but that will be good for noone.  You know they will blow it out of proportion, but if need be, so be it.  See in between Election and Black Friday pieces there is likely to be a new lull.  Nothing like gaming is promoting bigotry to get the medias attention.  I would hate for it to get to that point, but all signs point to that being the begining of the endgame.  So you can be a lemming and act like the ledge is a good place to go, or you can join in and say " at least look at the current protocol."

I really don't care what you want to call it.  Of course it's a CYA statement, but it's part of the terms of service that you yourself agreed to when signing up and paying for this service.  It's hypocritical to only focus on one section of the terms without taking into account all the policies in place.

I don't blame you for wanting a perfect world but Microsoft is not responsible for giving that to you.

Again we are not looking for perfect or for a solution for the world.  We want a better system, we know there is no perfect one.  Stop going all Clark Grisswold with " Look kids, "Big Brother", "system is fine".  Again, what is your stake in this, you sound like you are in Redmond, or that you are a big stockholder.

---

What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

Valid or not it's still an assumption.  You do not have conclusive evidence to prove one way or another.

Of course, because they treat the process like the secret spice recipe at KFC.  Set up a system where I can see if it is being handled.  Now I have to be a cop and a Hardy boy?  And pay for the honor?  Thanks...

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What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?

But you've stated yourself that you do not have conclusive evidence that the system in place doesn't work.  You filed a complaint and assumed that it did nothing based on somebody's comments which could have very well been taken out of context.  Certainly a single set of complaints from one game session could be viewed as cyber bullying.  However, if, as you assumed, the offender had a history of doing this, then the history of complaints would result in a ban.

I'm not going to respond in this post anymore because really it isn't my job to defend Microsoft.  I'm stunned and amazed that none of the employees or mods that are responsible for enforcing these rules haven't stepped in to open your eyes. 

I leave you with this however.  If there is no reprocussion for saying or doing anything offensive on Live or xbox.com, then by all means go on a rampage tonight to prove the point.  Please change your gamertag now to something offensive and see if that doesn't result in a ban.  I assure you, if the users that you are crying out to for change, step up and use the system appropriately, you will find yourself locked out.

 MR MOJ0 R1SIN wrote:

But you've stated yourself that you do not have conclusive evidence that the system in place doesn't work.  You filed a complaint and assumed that it did nothing based on somebody's comments which could have very well been taken out of context.  Certainly a single set of complaints from one game session could be viewed as cyber bullying.  However, if, as you assumed, the offender had a history of doing this, then the history of complaints would result in a ban.

I'm not going to respond in this post anymore because really it isn't my job to defend Microsoft.  I'm stunned and amazed that none of the employees or mods that are responsible for enforcing these rules haven't stepped in to open your eyes. 

I leave you with this however.  If there is no reprocussion for saying or doing anything offensive on Live or xbox.com, then by all means go on a rampage tonight to prove the point.  Please change your gamertag now to something offensive and see if that doesn't result in a ban.  I assure you, if the users that you are crying out to for change, step up and use the system appropriately, you will find yourself locked out.

I have the plan as outlined above and will contact people when this is not addressed.  The system i s not working as we are told to mute and play with likeminded people.  That is straight from two members of the xbox.com management team.  That is trying to get good people to avoid the system.  That is my proof.  I will pm you copies of the emails if you need proof.

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What chance does Gotham have
when the good people do nothing?