Re: What the picture perfect next gen console would be

OG Pooh:

That's why they don't need all the apps that Microsoft (and Sony to less of an extent) are throwing on them & at us.

They aren't throwing anything at gamers. Gaming on the 360 is as easy now as it was in the past, if not easier. Either set the console to auto-boot whatever title is in the tray, or hit the A button after logging in.

 

Because YOU do not want the extra media functions does not mean Live users do not in general. I don't use the media features often and I only own one series from Zune. I don't begrudge others who do use the console's media functions as you appear to..

I thought I made it pretty clear that the lack of focus I'm talking about is on games...

You have provided no proof that there's a lack of focus on games. Adding extra features does not mean focus on games is lost.

Specifically, exclusive games.

At this point in a console's life span, exclusivity is a NEGATIVE, not a positive. Devs and publishers making MORE money is better for everyone.

Actually, it would seem I'm not the only one who shares this observation. I'd like to know where all these great exclusives you speak of, are.

DLC and demos, mostly. Get out Google or Bing, type in XBOX 360 timed exclusives. MW3, Skyrim, RE6 demo, TMNT, Dragon's Dogma... Go through the list..

What does it matter what point in the 360's lifecycle it's at?

I said console life cycle, not the 360's life cycle.

 

After about 2-3 years on the market, the middleware catches up. It's all good now. Rendering-wise, the experience on the PS3 and 360 is about the same. There's little technical reason, from a developer perspective, to go exclusive. Unreal Engine 3 on the 360, Unreal Engine 3 on the PS3 - does it really matter? The engine works very well on both.

The PS3  (obviously) has all the multiplatform games that the 360 has, and a very good amount of AAA exclusives, including many still to come.

Yeah... you say that, but... I've played exactly one exclusive on the PS3 in the past year, Infamous 2. Do you know why I don't bother to boot up Uncharted 3? It took me over an hour to get Infamous 2 "installed".

they also continue to focus on creating first party exclusives.

They do? Here's IGN's 2012 list for the PS3 and the 360.

Major Dihkface:

Maybe even every now and then a free 400 microsoft points for staying with Xbox.

Yeah, maybe an incentive, for loyalty to the XBOX LIVE! service... ie. The more years on LIVE!, the more incentives or exclusive content etc..

..

Your Gamertag, is close to breaching the Code of Conduct too..

The picture perfect next gen console would not have any of the problems that we get with the Xbox 360. Disc scratching, overheating, open tray error. There are going to be some problems that can happen but if you can eliminate these three it will be worth buying.

I know it would have more things to go wrong or break etc... But a Transformer LE Console would be aesthetically cool... Put it on it's side & pull out arms, legs & change the head / face or weapons that hold the console accessories etc.. 

IceStorm III:

OG Pooh:

That's why they don't need all the apps that Microsoft (and Sony to less of an extent) are throwing on them & at us.

They aren't throwing anything at gamers. Gaming on the 360 is as easy now as it was in the past, if not easier. Either set the console to auto-boot whatever title is in the tray, or hit the A button after logging in.

 

Because YOU do not want the extra media functions does not mean Live users do not in general. I don't use the media features often and I only own one series from Zune. I don't begrudge others who do use the console's media functions as you appear to..

I thought I made it pretty clear that the lack of focus I'm talking about is on games...

You have provided no proof that there's a lack of focus on games. Adding extra features does not mean focus on games is lost.

Specifically, exclusive games.

At this point in a console's life span, exclusivity is a NEGATIVE, not a positive. Devs and publishers making MORE money is better for everyone.

Actually, it would seem I'm not the only one who shares this observation. I'd like to know where all these great exclusives you speak of, are.

DLC and demos, mostly. Get out Google or Bing, type in XBOX 360 timed exclusives. MW3, Skyrim, RE6 demo, TMNT, Dragon's Dogma... Go through the list..

What does it matter what point in the 360's lifecycle it's at?

I said console life cycle, not the 360's life cycle.

 

After about 2-3 years on the market, the middleware catches up. It's all good now. Rendering-wise, the experience on the PS3 and 360 is about the same. There's little technical reason, from a developer perspective, to go exclusive. Unreal Engine 3 on the 360, Unreal Engine 3 on the PS3 - does it really matter? The engine works very well on both.

The PS3  (obviously) has all the multiplatform games that the 360 has, and a very good amount of AAA exclusives, including many still to come.

Yeah... you say that, but... I've played exactly one exclusive on the PS3 in the past year, Infamous 2. Do you know why I don't bother to boot up Uncharted 3? It took me over an hour to get Infamous 2 "installed".

they also continue to focus on creating first party exclusives.

They do? Here's IGN's 2012 list for the PS3 and the 360.

 

One question though. Of all the people who spent long hours in line to get theri hands on the system during launch and then again at Best Buys second launch, how many of them did it for media functions? Anybody i knew or talked to both on the internet as well as in line for 21 hours in 16 degree weather were talking about the games. There were very few media functions for a very long time. Everybody wanted to play their games.

 

While yes their might be a lot of people who love their media functions (myself included), the reasons I bought the system to begin with are slowly becoming overshadowed with this third party stuff. Much of the stuff is becoming a useless waste of resources anyway. Especially since most new HDTVs, Blu-Ray players, Home Theaters and even DVD players are already coming prepacked with much of this software with no need of extra subscriptions. We are even reaching an age where you can stream this stuff straight from your cell phone to your TV. To watch something like Netflix on the Xbox 360, you have to pay twice to access it even though i already have three other ways to access it. With better quality software even. It's getting to the point where unless Xbox Live is the main part of your social life, you don't even need many of these apps. Now as this smart technology (especially with cell phones) advances even further, apps from your gaming console are going to become that much more pointless.

 

Now you say that during this point in a consoles lifespan, exclusives are a negative thing? Now why is that? You say that the UE3 does not matter on either console yet in early 2005, Epic came out with an exclusive Xbox engine called the UEX2 which even made 360 games outperform many current gen PC games of the time even though it was running on extremely dated hardware. According to Epic back then, the exclusive development allowed them to do things they could not do otherwise because since everybody was running the exact same specs, they could tap into the consoles true potential. Ubisoft showed this as well even on the regular UE2 when the Exclusive Xbox version of Chaos Theory completely blew away even the PC. So now when is the best time during a consoles cycle for exclusives? In the early years when the attach rate resets back to zero and it becomes harder to sell games again? Sure. Why not. Lets just waste our great exclusives on a userbase that consists of 1 to 10 million gamers and just hope even 10% of them buy our game. Even MW3 sold to less than 20% of the audience. Gears 3 sold to about 8%.

Murderstyle75:

Anybody i knew or talked to both on the internet as well as in line for 21 hours in 16 degree weather were talking about the games.

Then they were deluded. The 360's launch lineup was awful. The first AAA title to hit the console was Gears of War. The first original title worth buying the console for was Dead Rising (and it pissed off people without HDTVs).

the reasons I bought the system to begin with are slowly becoming overshadowed with this third party stuff.

Why do you say that? Have you SEEN the laundry list of games coming out this year?

Especially since most new HDTVs, Blu-Ray players, Home Theaters and even DVD players are already coming prepacked with much of this software with no need of extra subscriptions.

Have you used those clients? They range from queue-only to partially servicable. They definitely aren't as smooth as the 360's offerings.

We are even reaching an age where you can stream this stuff straight from your cell phone to your TV.

Uh... I guess? It's a bit unwieldy to hook up a phone to a TV?

To watch something like Netflix on the Xbox 360, you have to pay twice to access it even though i already have three other ways to access it. With better quality software even.

Then... don't pay?

It's getting to the point where unless Xbox Live is the main part of your social life, you don't even need many of these apps.

That would be the point behind why they're adding the apps. They have a large active customer base. The apps and offerings help deliver content to those customers instead of those eyeballs wandering off to another place.

apps from your gaming console are going to become that much more pointless.

But you can argue that for any device. Why are you cabling a PHONE to your TV to watch movies? Why would you suffer the slow speed of a Blu-ray player's Netflix client when there's a fast client on the 360?

Now you say that during this point in a consoles lifespan, exclusives are a negative thing? Now why is that?

Thought that was pretty clear - middleware is mature. There's little to gain by being exclusive if the middleware is suitable.

You say that the UE3 does not matter on either console yet in early 2005, Epic came out with an exclusive Xbox engine called the UEX2 which even made 360 games outperform many current gen PC games of the time even though it was running on extremely dated hardware.

Uh, no. UE2X was an original XBOX engine and helped make Unreal Championship 2 look as good as first generation 360 titles. The optimizations included with UE2X were incorporated into UE3.

According to Epic back then, the exclusive development allowed them to do things they could not do otherwise because since everybody was running the exact same specs, they could tap into the consoles true potential.

You're comparing a final stage XBOX engine on last generation hardware to seasoned middleware on an extended cycle for this generation.

 

The XBOX lasted four years. We're now in year seven of the 360's lifespan and year six of the PS3's lifespan. Yes, optimizing for one console will work, but that has to be weighed against the monetary losses going single-platform may result in. This generation's middleware is cleary quite mature and capable, so... why go single platform?

So now when is the best time during a consoles cycle for exclusives?

When the middleware isn't able to deliver the performance desired.

Well perhaps to 3rd party developers and publishers, it doesnt really matter that much because they will just go where the users are but to a console maker, it should mean so much more. I mean being a launch Xbox 1 owner and a Best Buy second launch 360 owner, I should be jumping up and down with the anticipation of the new console. For the first time since this brand has existed though, I am not sure I really even care. Now the lack of exclusives seems to be the most popular debate on this website, Team Xbox and pretty much every other board out there which tells me I am far from alone in my thoughts. That could be dangerous because whether it is on the Playstation or Xbox, people are going to play their COD, Elder Scrolls and Mass Effect. It's the other titles, namely 1st party games that make most favor one console over the other. Capture a stronger userbase based on your library of games and you can bet many of these <place popular titles here> will become exclusive as well. It never hurt Rockstar to keep GTA3 and Vice City exclusive to Sony for the majority of last generation. Are you really that confident that a bland extended generation could not have a really bad effect on next gen sales? And its not even just a bland extended generation because with the exception of Gears, the few exclusives we have seen in a very long time came from the original console which are Fable, Forza and Halo.

 

Now what do I really have to look forward to for the rest of this generation on the 360 besides Kinect games, XBLA games and multiplats? Even the next Forza game is an XBLA title and the next Fable is a Kinect game on rails. If you look at the PS3 on the other hand, Naughty Dog is doing much more than another sequal with their new IP "The Last of Us" but Sony has Starhawk, The Last Guardian, LBP Karting, Sly Cooper, Agent which is a PS3 exclusive by Rockstar, FFXIV MMO which will not be making its way to the 360, etc. Now for being a dedicated Xbox gamer for over a decade now, why should I be looking at Sony games and thinking WTF?

 

As for the smartphone and slower netflix on Blu-Ray? I see your point however you are only thinking current specs. This tech keeps evolving every day and I believe that in the not so far future, this is going to become a very stable standard and will probably be completely wireless. I just really think Microsoft is wasting their time with the whole app thing while turning their backs on their games.

Murderstyle75:

a Best Buy second launch 360 owner

I felt sorry for all you poor sods who got stuck in the rain with all the cuts in line. I pre-ordered my 360 a week after E3 2005 at my local GameStop. I was #3. No "pre-order" lines for me (though I did go with friends to Best Buy for moral support). After the fiasco that was the PS2 launch, I knew the 360 would be worse.

It's the other titles, namely 1st party games that make most favor one console over the other.

Maybe if you have lots of time on your hands that's true. I buy multi-platform on the 360 because it just works. PS3 you have to patch and patch and install and patch some more...

Are you really that confident that a bland extended generation could not have a really bad effect on next gen sales?

With respect to exclusives? No, I don't see that happening. Microsoft gets big-name DLC ahead of their competitors and they have some nice exclusives this year.

Now what do I really have to look forward to for the rest of this generation on the 360 besides Kinect games, XBLA games and multiplats?

Fez, Trials Evolution, Minecraft, Halo 4, COD DLC first, Demos first, etc.

If you look at the PS3 on the other hand,

I see The Last Of Us, The Last Guardian, and maybe Dust 514. The rest? Meh.

Now for being a dedicated Xbox gamer for over a decade now, why should I be looking at Sony games and thinking WTF?

it's your decision not to own both platforms. Like I said, I own the PS3. I have yet to play Uncharted 3...

I just really think Microsoft is wasting their time with the whole app thing while turning their backs on their games.

As you say, the smartphones of the future have the power of today's consoles. As MS has a vested interest in the smartphone space, I see no reason to believe that the apps of today will not lay the foundation of the apps tomorrow.

 

They're going to do it anyway. It doesn't really matter where they start.