Re: we give xbox our money for what?

Beta Bri:

LostKauz:

Actually, I'm getting what I pay for. The simple fact that you cannot play Online while over Xbox LIVE or use any of the Gold Feature Apps is so worth every penny. Come on, try harder...

Nice try at a justification on Microsoft's gouging of their customers by locking up free internet apps behind their Gold firewall. Too bad, not many outside of OXF agree with you.

Try harder, your Trollin is slippin.

Mine is not a "try" but what is. It's Fact, you can't use Xbox LIVE for "free" because I pay for it. Fact, repeatable, undeniable. And who are these "many", where are they to come to your aid in this crybaby rant about not having a few cents a day?

You wanna know what I did earlier? I pointlessly spent money on a In-Game Item further giving more money to a greedy Corporation so that they can charge you for more. Who knows, maybe some day your ISP will charge you for clicking Links on your Computer. It might keep you from Posting Spam. We can only wish though...

Johnny Sinister:

This article is from over 5 years ago. Since then there has been many instances of free xbox content uploaded to the Xbox Live Marketplace.

Links? Proof?

This article is from over 3 years ago, and is a little misleading in your argument. Games For Windows Live has nowhere near the content or services provided by Xbox Live. The service was dropped due to change of current PC gaming market and the refunds given were a classy touch.

Wrong. It was "dropped" because PC gamers *understood* Microsoft was trying to rip them off and boycotted (not like the kids in here, whose memberships depend mostly on their parent's wallet).

This is from a site I have never even heard of, and has a weak argument.

Just because you haven't heard of the web site, doesn't make it any less relevant. And yes, customers are being charged by Microsoft to access free internet apps and some content that is freely available everywhere else, including other gaming consoles. Or else the access to those free internet apps would be in the Silver section of Xbox Live.

Also, if you read the comments at the bottom of the article, almost everyone is supporting MS and Xbox Live.

The "operative" words is *almost* everyone*... Apparently most do not support those views outside of here. And those that do vigorously support Microsoft's policies of gouging their 360 consumer base, never venture out from safety of OXF and defend them.

Beta Bri:

Snip-

Holy Guacamole?! You actually speak, using your own words no less? And here I was starting to think you were some type of Automaton Program?!

Are you ready to have a real Discussion now without pointless Links and quotes?

LostKauz:

[Trollin is slippin.

Lol! I wouldn't call "consumer activism" trolling. But I guess Microsoft would...

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2011/11/01/is-microsoft-a-patent-troll.aspx

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsofts-samsung-android-patent-troll-win/9634

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Barnes-and-Noble-Snaps-Calls-Microsoft-a-Patent-Troll-234601.shtml

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/345099/microsoft-introducing-more-tv-like-ads-on-xbox-live/

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-57399010-261/microsoft-seeks-patent-for-tv-viewing-tolls/




   

LostKauz:

Are you ready to have a real Discussion now without pointless Links and quotes?

Quotes and links are only "pointless" to those, who wish to deceive.

This post was brought to by....

Xbox Live... "The online daycare center for your busy life."

Beta Bri:

LostKauz:

Are you ready to have a real Discussion now without pointless Links and quotes?

Quotes and links are only "pointless" to those, who wish to deceive.

This post was brought to by....

Xbox Live... "The online daycare center for your busy life."

Ah, I see. Too bad. Anywho back to the Spam and other pointless Links. And yes, they are pointless when you just pull them from the bass end of the interweebs. You do know, I have that thing called Google as well?

Beta Bri:

LostKauz:

Snip-

Lol! I wouldn't call "consumer activism" trolling. But I guess Microsoft would...

Smells like a Troll, Post like a Troll, must be Troll. You full yet. You Troll by Posting with the sole intention of upsetting or getting a rise out of others. That is Troll.

You ranting at a bunch of Users. "We" don't care in regards to if you can use Xbox LIVE or not.

LostKauz:

You ranting at a bunch of Users. "We" don't care in regards to if you can use Xbox LIVE or not.

You really seem to put a lot of energy in "not caring"...???

<rest of crying snipped>

Beta Bri:

Johnny Sinister:

This article is from over 5 years ago. Since then there has been many instances of free xbox content uploaded to the Xbox Live Marketplace.

Links? Proof?

Proof? I am almost certain at this point you are just Googling key words and finding sites that seemingly fit your argument (even though they generally don't) and then you show complete ignorance to the information of the subjects you are arguing. I will bite though. Free Xbox Content:

-100's of gamerpics and themes

-Free avatar items

-Free gold weekends

-Numerous Xbox Live Arcade Games (Hexic HD, Dorito's Dash for Destruction, Dorito's Crash Course, Yaris, Undertow, Totem Ball, Aegis Wings, Harm's Way)

-Numerous Fee Interactive apps (Half a dozen Kinect Fun Labs games)

-Numerous add-on content for games (additional level packs for Exit, free tables for Pinball FX, various map packs for FPSs, in game content items and skins/costumes/items for dozens and dozens of games.)

-Free promo downloads (Texas Hold'em, avatar items)

-Xbox Rewards awards (avatar items, gamer points)

-Free Xbla games for WIndows Phone 7 (numerous)

-Free downloadable game for Games for Windows Live (Tinker)

-Not to mention videos, apps, and game demos/trials.

Beta Bri:

Johnny Sinister:

This article is from over 3 years ago, and is a little misleading in your argument. Games For Windows Live has nowhere near the content or services provided by Xbox Live. The service was dropped due to change of current PC gaming market and the refunds given were a classy touch.

Wrong. It was "dropped" because PC gamers *understood* Microsoft was trying to rip them off and boycotted (not like the kids in here, whose memberships depend mostly on their parent's wallet).

Again, your 'sources' say one thing, and you interpret a completely different way.

Beta Bri:

Johnny Sinister:

This is from a site I have never even heard of, and has a weak argument.

Just because you haven't heard of the web site, doesn't make it any less relevant. And yes, customers are being charged by Microsoft to access free internet apps and some content that is freely available everywhere else, including other gaming consoles. Or else the access to those free internet apps would be in the Silver section of Xbox Live.

No, they are not being charged by Microsoft to access these apps. FACT: Gold fees are flat, no matter if they add or subtract these apps. If you have 0 apps or 1000 apps, Gold is still the same price, therefor, it is obvious that you are not 'paying' for access to these free internet apps. FACT. These apps may be free everywhere else, but everywhere else you are not accessing them through Xbox Live, which IS what you are paying for. Make Sense? As far as the site goes, it is relevant whether or not it is a respectable source. Heck, if you look hard enough, I am sure you can find other sites that I haven't heard of that argue the exact opposite.

Beta Bri:

LostKauz:

You ranting at a bunch of Users. "We" don't care in regards to if you can use Xbox LIVE or not.

You really seem to put a lot of energy in "not caring"...???

<rest of crying snipped>

Call it "exposure". You need a little.

LostKauz:

Call it "exposure".

Lol!

You need a little.

I've got plenty...

Beta Bri:

I've got plenty...

Apparently not enough as you refuse to acknowlege that nothing is "free".

 

The editorials you link to do not answer the question of what entity should be paying the bandwidth fees and general server upkeep for all these apps you think should be free. In no article I've ever read about Live's model have I seen a vendor volunteer to pay those bandwidth and infrastructure bills.

 

Gold helps pay for that infrastructure.

Johnny Sinister:

Proof? I am almost certain at this point you are just Googling key words and finding sites that seemingly fit your argument (even though they generally don't) and then you show complete ignorance to the information of the subjects you are arguing. I will bite though.

Free Xbox Content:

-100's of gamerpics and themes

Link?

-Free avatar items

Link?

-Free gold weekends

When? Where? How many in a given year? (Link?)

-Numerous Xbox Live Arcade Games (Hexic HD, Dorito's Dash for Destruction, Dorito's Crash Course, Yaris, Undertow, Totem Ball, Aegis Wings, Harm's Way)

Sorry, can't count advertisement Spam as *actual content* given by Microsoft. 

-Numerous Fee Interactive apps (Half a dozen Kinect Fun Labs games)

You really can't count Kinect apps/spam. It's a console add-on that restricts it's free content through purchasing another device (which negates the argument, entirely to exclusivity, instead of being readily available to everyone, like the free internet apps access being restricted behind the Gold firewall).

-Numerous add-on content for games (additional level packs for Exit, free tables for Pinball FX, various map packs for FPSs, in game content items and skins/costumes/items for dozens and dozens of games.)

Link? Proof?

-Free promo downloads (Texas Hold'em, avatar items)

Sorry... You can't really count demos, as actual gaming content. It's basically, a playable commercial for the entire game.

-Xbox Rewards awards (avatar items, gamer points)

It's basically, a loyalty driven referral Spam program, masquerading under the facade, as benevolence on the part of Microsoft. 

-Free Xbla games for WIndows Phone 7 (numerous)

It has nothing to do with the actual Xbox community, and doesn't count.

-Free downloadable game for Games for Windows Live (Tinker)

Again, that has very little to do with the Xbox community in general (unless you happen to be a PC gamer, as well.) Besides, it's free, as opposed their Xbox counterpart.

-Not to mention videos, apps, and game demos/trials.

Link? (Demos and trials don't count as actual Xbox Live content given by Microsoft.)

In closing... Where's the written proof of all these things? I'm especially interested in the 100's of free gamer pics, free avatar items and all of those Gold weekends, open to Silver subscribers?

Again, your 'sources' say one thing...

Well, at least I have sources...

...and you interpret a completely different way.

( your reading comprehension could use a *boost*, as well.)

IceStorm III:

The editorials you link to do not answer the question of what entity should be paying the bandwidth fees and general server upkeep for all these apps you think should be free.

Wrong. Those links aren't "editorials". You can't even discern between a genuine article and an editorial.

In no article I've ever read about Live's model have I seen a vendor volunteer to pay those bandwidth and infrastructure bills.

Gold helps pay for that infrastructure.

Most of the bandwidth cost is on the consumer, and content providers. P2P gaming, Netflix, Hulu, and the host of other free internet apps, plus surcharge fees to advertisers. Stat and matchmaking servers run at a loss, are most likely "written off the ledgers" as a tax liability. So, Microsoft is reimbursed for the losses incurred, at the end of the day.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/07/microsoft-refunding-gamers-games-for-windows-live-goes-free.ars

 

Beta Bri:

Wrong. Those links aren't "editorials". You can't even discern between a genuine article and an editorial.

I can. Apparently, you cannot.

Most of the bandwidth cost is on the consumer, and content providers.

Break down content provider to content creator and actual content hosting. MS provides content hosting for all Marketplace content.

 

Bandwidth is paid for on both ends. Consumers typically enjoy flat-rate pricing. Business with large Internet pipes do not. You've also left out the infrastructure (routers, firewalls, load balancers, switches, racks, server farms) and the people who keep them running.

P2P gaming, Netflix, Hulu, and the host of other free internet apps, plus surcharge fees to advertisers.

Live's server which both serve up the apps themselves for download as well as host other Live functions are not free, nor are the staff to maintain them.

Stat and matchmaking servers run at a loss, are most likely "written off the ledgers" as a tax liability.

What are you talking about? MS is a for-profit company. Those are operating expenses.

So, Microsoft is reimbursed for the losses incurred, at the end of the day.

While MS may take tax breaks, they're still paying for the infrastructure.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/07/microsoft-refunding-gamers-games-for-windows-live-goes-free.ars

You keep quoting that. It's a different platform, it was 2008, and it's done. MS's Games for Windows Live did not succeed in the face of Steam. PC gaming is also a very small fraction of the market, around an order of magitude less in terms of revenue than consoles are. They can afford to carry PC gamers for free because there are effectively no Games for Windows Live users as compared to the console userbase.

Beta Bri:

Paying to access free internet apps on Xbox Live? Would be like paying my PC manufacturer or my ISP, every time I clicked a link.  

Firstly,

Where are your links, to say that the internet applications on XBOX LIVE are supposed to be free & the Owners/Companies of the applications, should cover the cost for you to watch their service for free...??

..

Secondly,

You do pay your ISP every time you click on a link... You just pay in advance, like you do for XBOX LIVE... [Shakes Head]

..

Thirdly,

Your PC Manufacturer, made the components for you to connect to your ISP & you payed them in advance for your computer...

..

Are you seeing the link here..???

IceStorm III:

Apparently, you cannot.

Prove it. Cite sources.

Bandwidth is paid for on both ends.

Most of the bandwidth is incurred on the consumption end of 360 customers and the distributive ends of content providers, like Netflix, Hulu, ect.

Consumers typically enjoy flat-rate pricing. Business with large Internet pipes do not. You've also left out the infrastructure (routers, firewalls, load balancers, switches, racks, server farms) and the people who keep them running.

Stat and matchmaking servers run at a loss, are most likely "written off the ledgers" as a tax liability.

What are you talking about? MS is a for-profit company. Those are operating expenses.

See above.

MS's Games for Windows Live did not succeed in the face of Steam. PC gaming is also a very small fraction of the market, around an order of magitude less in terms of revenue than consoles are. They can afford to carry PC gamers for free because there are effectively no Games for Windows Live users as compared to the console userbase.

Poor excuse... PC gamers were smart enough to *know* that Microsoft was trying to gouge them, and boycotted. 

[REMOVED]

It's a different platform...

Doesn't matter... Microsoft tried to integrate the different platforms under one "pay to play" umbrella and failed! PC gamers knew when they were getting hosed by Microsoft.

it was 2008, and it's done.

Nice way, to sweep the whole ordeal underneath the rug.

Beta Bri:

Prove it. Cite sources.

Prove that you're linking to editorials? You can't tell the difference between opinion and fact, so that's a lost cause...

Most of the bandwidth is incurred on the consumption end of 360 customers and the distributive ends of content providers, like Netflix, Hulu, ect.

Because the volume of data served by streaming services is larger does not mean there's zero cost to MS for storing and serving Marketplace content and apps

Stat and matchmaking servers run at a loss, are most likely "written off the ledgers" as a tax liability.

No, that's not how it works.

Poor excuse... PC gamers were smart enough to *know* that Microsoft was trying to gouge them, and boycotted.

NPD, before they stopped publilshing stats to the public, already showed that console game sales vs PC game sales was at a 10:1 ratio. Order of magnitude. There are effectively no PC gamers relative to the size of the Console revenue stream.

Doesn't matter... Microsoft tried to integrate the different platforms under one "pay to play" umbrella and failed! PC gamers knew when they were getting hosed by Microsoft.

PC gamers had mature, viable alternatives (Steam). Console gamers do not.

Nice way, to sweep the whole ordeal underneath the rug.

Seeing as how it was four years ago, it's no longer relevant.

Beta, I am not posting links to every free item I mentioned. I know they are free, because I am a Gold member and downloaded the stuff.. If you were too, and made the most of the system, you wouldn't need the links. Actually, a lot of this stuff is common knowledge (everyone goes asking about the free stuff). Besides, you seem to be the master of Googling links. I already did the hard part and listed all the content, you just have to Google it and you will find you links.

-

For a short cut, you can go to wikipedia, type in "List of xbox Live Arcade games" and it will tell all the XBLA games and their respective downloadable content that is free (and I am sure wikipedia doesn't count as a source in your opinion, unlike your amateur, no-name sites that you have never stumbled upon until tonight to defend your arguments, but I can confirm that all the freebies are accurate, as I have downloaded them all).

NanoTechSoldier:

Firstly,

Where are your links, to say that the internet applications on XBOX LIVE are supposed to be free & the Owners/Companies of the applications, should cover the cost for you to watch their service for free...??

It's common knowledge...they're ubiquitously free to access on every platform besides Microsoft's Xbox.

[REMOVED]

Your PC Manufacturer, made the components for you to connect to your ISP & you payed them in advance for your computer...

It's like I said before, "Paying to access free internet apps on Xbox Live? Would be like paying my PC manufacturer or my ISP every time I clicked a link."

Are you seeing the link here..???

Obviously...

Johnny Sinister:

Beta, I am not posting links to every free item I mentioned. I know they are free, because I am a Gold member and downloaded the stuff..

Typical.

IceStorm III:

Prove that you're linking to editorials? You can't tell the difference between opinion and fact, so that's a lost cause...

Lol! Good excuse, for no excuse!

<rest of troll snipped>

You missed my point, once again Beta Bri... You have no clue...

I've said this to you before too.. Microsoft, needs to have their own ISP connection &/or Peer Points, so you can access the XBOX LIVE service...

Could an ISP connect to you, if you didn't have a modem...??? Wise up Beta Bri... 

NanoTechSoldier:

I've said this to you before too.. Microsoft, needs to have their own ISP connection &/or Peer Points, so you can access the XBOX LIVE service...

Naturally, how would Microsoft connect their spam servers, DLC servers, link to third party content on  the internet, and utilize the customer's ISP's bandwidth for game matchmaking for P2P online gaming, and linking to third party content providers that are locked behind the Gold firewall and held ransom?          

Could an ISP connect to you, if you didn't have a modem...???

It's more lucrative for Microsoft to gouge customers by restricting link access through the Gold firewall, instead of offering a browser for customer's access those third party content providers, themselves.

You have no clue...

Lol! Quit looking in the mirror...

Beta Bri:

Naturally, how would Microsoft connect their spam servers, DLC servers, link to third party content on  the internet, and utilize the customer's ISP's bandwidth for game matchmaking for P2P online gaming, and linking to third party content providers that are locked behind the Gold firewall and held ransom?

You seriously don't get it..

Each supplier of content on XBOX Live, has to have their own connection to the Internet, to stream data to the XBOX Live Servers & uses their own Internet connection...

Some servers are connected via Peer Points & share the connection between "Internal Microsoft Servers & Game or Content Servers, to even up the user load on network, while using their applications from Dashboard etc..

Not the end-users ISP Connection or Console.....  

The only time your ISP is streaming anything, is when the Information or Data "Leaves" the MIcrosoft Servers, heading towards your console via your ISPs Network...

ISP Throughput or Bandwidth, doesn't fluctuate because of Microsoft, XBOX Live or any other user of XBOX Live & is not shared by anyone but you...

Your ISP Controls your Internet connection, on a Shared Neighbourhood Connection, from Routing equipment @ the ISP exchange & your connection only fluctuates, due to other users on your ISPs Network [Being Peak or Off-Peak Hours]... Not XBOX Live..

Beta Bri:

It's more lucrative for Microsoft to gouge customers by restricting link access through the Gold firewall, instead of offering a browser for customer's access those third party content providers, themselves.

What do you think your Dashboard is...??? A Browser of Applications... Microsoft, do not "gouge" customers or restrict what you have access to... You have the right to choose what you want, when you want on a Gold Subscription... Only Silver Subscriptions are blocked by the XBOX Live Firewalls...

When an Application like NetFlix, asks you to access their own secure movie storage server & stream movies from their server [From "Their" paid ISP Connection] to XBOX Live servers & then out to your ISP to send to you...  You pay a fee for accessing a Their paid service...

XBOX Live doesn't have legal access or control rights to NetFlix Secure Servers [Royalties Licenced to NetFlix, Not XBOX Live or Microsoft] & XBOX Live just gives you a Streaming connection from the connection linked [Peer Point] NetFlix / XBOX Live Servers to your ISP & then to your Consoles Dashboard... Nothing more, Nothing less...

Stop crying over It... If you disregard, what I said here... You are just starting trouble on this forum...  

I expect, that you, do.

But I think you need to brush up on your grammar skills before you start trying to use your 'intelligence' against people in this, text, based, medium.

So I guess my post got deleted. I can't really be sure because I do not get emails from the forums but once again. Why are you guys feeding it?

I doubt it was deleted, all the forums seem really prone to glitching out, displaying posts in the wrong order or sometimes just flat out not allowing posts at all.

I think it must have been designed by the same team that implemented the youtube app GUI

NoxiousFarts:

Why are you guys feeding it?

It's fun to see how out of touch with reality some people are? :-)

LostKauz:

 Too bad. Anywho back to the Spam and other pointless Links. And yes, they are pointless when you just pull them from the bass end of the interweebs. You do know, I have that thing called Google as well?

No sources to counter your argument? It is really a shame.

Smells like a Troll, Post like a Troll, must be Troll. You full yet. You Troll by Posting with the sole intention of upsetting or getting a rise out of others. That is Troll.

Don't look too hard into your mirror, you might break it!

"Honesty is the best policy."- Benjamin Franklin

[REMOVED]

NanoTechSoldier:

What do you think your Dashboard is...??? A Browser of Applications... Microsoft, do not "gouge" customers or restrict what you have access to... You have the right to choose what you want, when you want on a Gold Subscription... Only Silver Subscriptions are blocked by the XBOX Live Firewalls...

[Translation]: "Microsoft reserves the right to gouge their customers, they way we see fit!"

XBOX Live doesn't have legal access or control rights to NetFlix Secure Servers [Royalties Licenced to NetFlix, Not XBOX Live or Microsoft] & XBOX Live just gives you a Streaming connection from the connection linked [Peer Point] NetFlix / XBOX Live Servers to your ISP & then to your Consoles Dashboard... Nothing more, Nothing less...

Thanks for admitting to the process on which Microsoft *gouges* it's Xbox customer base!

You are just starting trouble on this forum...

 

Quit crying!

~ "Ignorance doesn't kill you, but it makes you sweat a lot. " ~

IceStorm III:

It's fun to see how out of touch with reality some people are? :-)

I couldn't have said better myself!

~"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" ~

You know a quote needs a source right. Just throwing " .... " around some words isn't exactly clear. I need to know who said these things so I can be as smart as you.

XBL has more people playing it .

Also doesn't everybody knows that in the Xbox Dashboard they usually have specials on XBL Gold.Currently they have $2 for 2 months +tax which sums up to like $3-4 dollars.

How much is the Tax, where you are JeffDBoss..?? $2 + Tax = $3 - $4 = 50-100%

JeffDBoss:

XBL has more people playing it .

All the more reason, for Microsoft to *show* a little customer courtesy, by not gouging them by locking up free internet apps behind their Gold firewall, and forbidding developer's to offer free DLC to their customer's as they customarily do for their PC customers.

Beta Bri:

NanoTechSoldier:

Why should online Multiplaying be free... It costs Microsoft money to run their own servers worldwide [ie. Electricity Bills, Hardware Maintenance & keeping Peer Points Active Worldwide By having their own ISP network etc]..

I don't understand, some peoples logic... How would you even play XBOX LIVE, without the rising Household Electricity Bills, Rent & a Internet Connection from ISP.... The same thing happens in business & Microsoft has the SAME bills + more too...

You are only paying 10.9p a day, for playing online...

In other news....

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/07/microsoft-refunding-gamers-games-for-windows-live-goes-free.ars

Im waiting patiently for my reward for subscribing for several years, whereas new customers get all of the benefits.

Mystery Entry:

Im waiting patiently for my reward for subscribing for several years, whereas new customers get all of the benefits.

You already received it ... e.g. higher yearly subscription costs with free internet apps for paid Gold subscribers only, paid P2P user bandwidth driven online gaming, and all the Kinect and overpriced DLC you care to eat! ;)

Woo!! Overpriced DLC I can get for free on the PC, or much cheaper..  Oh, but i don't pay to play games on my PC! And its more reliable. :)

SparkStormrider:

US Revenge:

free games

While there are quite a few "free" games from the premium PSN, don't ever let your subscription lapse, or you will not be able to play those "free" games anymore.

so? don't ever let your live lapse or you can't play online at all. 
with PSN+
darn, can't play the games i never payed for, guess i'l play another game  i bought online
360
no gold..... can't do anything really....  guess i'll beg friends for money.