Is this the secret sauce

    • Level   2

    They are all talking about it over at neogaf

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=686645

    I think this is the article they are talking about

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/7371/understanding-amds-mantle-a-lowlevel-graphics-api-for-gcn#Aa67A2sOwWg8AthR.16

    • Level   2

    Don't understand what it all means any techie people here to simplify it for me? I don't mean to be a pain.

    • Level   4

    My understanding ( I am not techie tho ) is that it is an API that sits closer to the hardware then directx does. Essentially a low level driver/API it should improve speeds and open up more of the architecture and quirks of the hardware to developers.

    What does the f00xm4n say ? I don't know !

    • Level   4

    it sounds like something that will benefit pc. with x1 and ps4 we saw the move to x86, bridging towards the pc world. this would then bring the pc closer to the x1 and ps4.

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    keeping things simple, because i dont fully undertand myself, there are high level and low level api. the high level api is easier to use and covers a wider range of hardware, but not as efficient use of your hardware. the low level api requires greater understanding of your code and hardware and uses the hardware much more efficiently, but its limited ot more specific hardware.

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    this article suggests that amd is bringing the x1 low level graphics api, which is really nice supposedly, to pc developers. making porting x1 games even using lower level apis easier. it also makes sure to clarify they are speculating and have no confirmation.

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    if this is true it hink the big winner could end up being the steambox.

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    what i do think is interesting is the article starts by talking about this low level api, mantle, as being developed by amd for its apu that is in both x1 and ps4. but later int he article it talks about it solely being an x1 api.

    ""Microsoft have been doing this for a while. I think they know what they are doing. If we could just show them some trust and some faith, the whole thing would go a lot smoother."- IIFatalshockII" - Dudeskis01

    • Level   4

    also it sounds like this was again just a teaser, and details will be released nov 11-14 at hte amd developer summit.

    ""Microsoft have been doing this for a while. I think they know what they are doing. If we could just show them some trust and some faith, the whole thing would go a lot smoother."- IIFatalshockII" - Dudeskis01

    • Level   2

    Also the developers will be able to port games over from X1 to PC faster as they can take more of the code over to a PC port faster. I would think that this benefits the X1 as they will be far more attractive to develop for. Reaching the audience of PC users. If my thinking is incorrect then the door may swing the other way. PC and then port to X1 but from what I read it seems  right the other way.

    • Level   2

    Cool

    • Level   4

    so i read it again. it really doesnt beneift PC on the whole. only PCs using this AMD GNC tech. but for people with nvidia cards or intel onboard it wont work at all.

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    if the apus end up taking off in mobile devices then this could be huge.

    ""Microsoft have been doing this for a while. I think they know what they are doing. If we could just show them some trust and some faith, the whole thing would go a lot smoother."- IIFatalshockII" - Dudeskis01

    • Level   4

    Is it the secret sauce? Yes and no. If those of you who read my comments remember I've said repeatedly that Direct3D 11.1 or 11.2 (or Direct X for those who insist on using the incorrect terminology for the graphic API component) wouldn't be the thing to make the Xbox One sing. I've constantly said it's be the low level API / wrapper developed specifically for the Xbox One hardware that would squeeze the best out of it. We know the PS4 lower level API is called GNM, and yes, much of that contains drivers and amended drivers from AMD specifically for exploiting their GCN cores... amongst other things. I'm assuming that the Xbox One lower level API will as well. So will it enable programmer to get more out of the Xbox One? Hell yes. But it's not an advantage over the PS4 in any way, because it too has access to the same commands.

    • Level   2

    Is it the secret sauce? Yes and no. If those of you who read my comments remember I've said repeatedly that Direct3D 11.1 or 11.2 (or Direct X for those who insist on using the incorrect terminology for the graphic API component) wouldn't be the thing to make the Xbox One sing. I've constantly said it's be the low level API / wrapper developed specifically for the Xbox One hardware that would squeeze the best out of it. We know the PS4 lower level API is called GNM, and yes, much of that contains  by safesaver" id="_GPLITA_0" href="/xbox_forums/general_discussion/f/3817/p/4024714/reply.aspx?tsid=4da9bf56-c882-485c-95fc-6a48d0bd9ea1" in_rurl="http://i.txtsrving.info/click?v=R0I6NTA2NjQ6MTg6ZHJpdmVyczpkZWU0MWMxMDAyOGUwZGI4NjQ5Yzk5NzQ3NjYwOWJkNzp6LTE0OTktMjAwNzIzOmZvcnVtcy54Ym94LmNvbTowOjA6MmRjZTMxOGFiNjYxNDc5YzgwMmVhMGZiNDk2YTQ5OTk">drivers and amended drivers from AMD specifically for exploiting their GCN cores... amongst other things. I'm assuming that the Xbox One lower level API will as well. So will it enable programmer to get more out of the Xbox One? Hell yes. But it's not an advantage over the PS4 in any way, because it too has access to the same commands.

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    I would say that yes xbox one would share some of those drivers you mention.....quote from the anandtech article

    " what becomes increasingly hinted at as we read through AMD’s material, is not just that Mantle is a low level API, but rather Mantle is the low level API. As in it’s either a direct copy or a very close derivative of the Xbox One’s low level graphics API. "

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    AMD tweeted last night.... "curious about mantle? anandtech is an excellent summary of our newly introduced technology"

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    Why would microsoft let AMD have their low level API....is this where all that money from microsoft went, have they struck a deal.

    • Level   4

    StadiumFighter

    I would say that yes xbox one would share some of those drivers you mention.....quote from the anandtech article

    " what becomes increasingly hinted at as we read through AMD’s material, is not just that Mantle is a low level API, but rather Mantle is the low level API. As in it’s either a direct copy or a very close derivative of the Xbox One’s low level graphics API. "

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    I'm not sure they'll be 'the same'. Very similar? Yes. Almost identical? Probably. But Microsoft have added their own foibles to the architecture used in the GPU inside the Xbox One. So to exploit sme of those changes will require slightly different commands and tool chains. But across PC's with AMD GPU's, X1 and PS4 there will be a fair more homogenous development environment now. To the point where it might start making sense for PC programmers to actively look to specifically exploit AMD tech. It's interesting for consoles, but it's bigger news for PC's. My next graphics card is 100% certain to be an AMD Radeon based card now.

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    StadiumFighter

    AMD tweeted last night.... "curious about mantle? anandtech is an excellent summary of our newly introduced technology"

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    Yep, I saw that, and I read the article, and it mentons that obviously mantle shares a lot with the X1 and PS4 low level wrappers. I'd be surprised though if they were all exactly the same. Mainlt because both Sony and Microrsoft have made tweaks to how the chips work over what AMD does for their off the shelf PC components. So they're similar, just not necessarily exactly the same. If it is good news for anyone, it's good news for AMD shareholders and AMD customers. This should lead to AMD having a slight advantage in the PC world now, as Direct3d 11.2 and OpenGL could never hope to match in performance terms an API designed specifically for certain architectures, because it is in their nature to be hardware agnostic, and therefore lose some of the hardwares specific peak performance.

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    StadiumFighter

    Why would microsoft let AMD have their low level API....is this where all that money from microsoft went, have they struck a deal.

    .

    I'm not sure you get it. Mantle is in effect a low level API for GCN based chips, I have no doubt that Sony and Microsoft have had input into the API in some respects, but the vast majority f the work will have been done by AMD's own engineers. The reason Mantle is big news isn't because it is next-gen news, on the contrary. It is almost certain that everyone already knew that consoles would have a low level API that would speak directly to the 'metal' so to speak.  Consoles always have low level API's that allow coders to squeeze the specific juice out of each system. So it isn't news that the Xbox One or PS4 have these low level wrappers. The big news is that there is now one for PC graphics cards, specifically those made by AMD... it's big news for PC gamers. But it doesn't end there. You see, the fact that both the PS4 and Xbox One have AMD GCN GPUs means that the best games developers in the world will not only become massively adept at exploiting AMD's GCN architecture, but that these skills will also now transfer over to much better looking games on PC's that run AMD's GCN based graphics cards. That's MASSIVE news. If you are buying a graphics card for your PC in the next year or so, make sure it's an AMD GCN card... it give AMD the possibility to really isolate Nvidia and put them in a really hard place.

    • Level   2

    Lol I think it's safe to say no I don't get it, I mentioned in previous post that I'm not at all tech savvy and feel free to laugh at me if you want. I should probably stay away from all the tech talk. =)

    • Level   4

    there have been low level apis for pcs as well, its discussed in the article. the issue is it alienates large chunks of hardware because they arent shared. it hink the big news here is that we have a very similar low level api being shared between a lot of different hardware.

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    i dont know how much this will be used in pc other then porting from x1/ps4. no one with nvidia or intel graphics will be able to play the games using mantle alone.

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    if amd really takes off, then yes this will end up being huge for pc. the big thing that keeps consoles somewhat competitive with pc games graphically is the use of low level api. if the amazing hardware of pc started using them to... wow.

    ""Microsoft have been doing this for a while. I think they know what they are doing. If we could just show them some trust and some faith, the whole thing would go a lot smoother."- IIFatalshockII" - Dudeskis01

    • Level   4

    Anybody seen misterx today, if the new rumour is true  console war over for Sony, if its a lie it's the best one I have read in ages lol

    What does the f00xm4n say ? I don't know !

    • Level   1

    You are so stupid for reading the *** that man posts and you actually think it might be true. lol