Re: New theory going around about the ending. (spoilers)

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New theory going around about the ending. (spoilers)

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  • 8 Followers
    Level: 4
  • I've been doing some creeping on the Bioware forums and there's now a new interpretation of the ending. And it's obviously better than the actual ending we are presented with. It's long, but bare with me. It sounds very very plausible. 

    .

    This interpretation is as follows: When you're running towards the beam to the Citadel and get hit by Harbringer, you are knocked unconscious. The events that take place afterwards with the Citadel and the Catalyst exist inside your head. This is because that over the course of the games, with the interactions with the reapers and being re-built by Cerberus with reaper tech - Shepard was slowly becoming indoctrinated by the reapers. Anyone who has come into intimate contact with the reapers ends up indoctrinated, it would only make sense that it's been happening with Shep to some extent.

    .

    The ending is the reapers attempting to get Shepard to save them from destruction through complete indoctrination. The Catalyst is in the appearance of the little boy to appeal to Shepard's sense of sympathy.  Did you wonder why the control ending is of blue colour (paragon) and the destroy ending was of red colour (renegade). Why would the control ending be the paragon choice? How is what The Illusive Man wanted, the moral choice? What Anderson wanted, the immoral choice? This doesn't make any sense. It DOES make sense if the Catalyst is trying to make Shepard choose the control ending or the merge ending. The Catalyst explains these choices to you in a manipulating manner, pushing you towards the idea that Destroy is the most destructive ending , Synthesis is best, Control is decent. It does make one hesitate to choose Destroy. To wipe out all synthetic life.... EDI and the Geth. 

    .

    So here are the real results of your endings:

    Destroy: You break through the indoctrination. Shep wakes up afterwards because he has broken out of this indoctrination. 
    Synthesis: You merge organics with synthetics, basically allowing all lifeforms to be manipulated by reaper code - like they were doing to the Geth numerous times throughout the series. Reapers win. This is what the reapers want most. A possibility for them to control everything.
    Control: You become fully indoctrinated, you become controlled. Everyone is destroyed and the reapers continue their cycle in the next 50k years.

    .

    • It's also noticed that in the merge and control endings, Shepard turns black and almost looks like a husk. 
    • It makes no sense that the AI is in the appearance of that child, unless it only exists in Shepard's head. If the Reapers are inside Shepard, they know of the child's hold over him.
    • In Shepard's final dream, you see Shepard catch the child, and then they are both engulfed in flames. This is foreshadowing that going with the child means destruction for Shep.
    • It is extremely odd/questionable that Anderson happened to make it onto the Citadel with you... without a scratch, I might add. And why is The Illusive Man there?
    • The Illusive Man/Anderson confrontation is Shepard's conscious fighting through the indoctrination. Anderson represents Shepard's conscious and The Illusive Man is trying to push Shepard towards the indoctrination "We can control them!". Shep successfully fights this off. So the reapers push harder with the Catalyst confrontation. 

    .

    You hear over the radio chatter that nobody makes it into the beam. Why would they say that when Anderson and Shepard clearly did? Because Shepard never woke up after getting hit by Harbringer. IF you choose the Destroy ending, you get that cutscene of Shepard lying under rubble with burned armor.. sound familiar? Shepard is still lying in london after getting hit. He takes a sharp breath because he's waking up from the attempted indoctrination. He still has to go into the beam and finish his business? 

    .

    Maybe Bioware is planning something big with that future DLC. Lets hope. All I know is this ending explains things better than the actual ending...

    What noise will you make when you hit the ground? You think you'll hear it before you die?

  • Level: 5
    Level: 7
  • social.bioware.com/.../9727423

    Thread on BSN if anybody wanted to look into it more.

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  • Level: 4
    AmbLevel0
  • Hmm... while that does indeed seem feasible, the question one must ask is this: Why wasn't this included in the final release? Why hold this back? If it's kept back deliberately for the purpose of DLC? One way to look at it, is to still get some revenue in the future, as it'd be a pretty safe bet that people will get it to have a 'proper' ending for their story. On the other hand, has this not hurt them in some way? On some forums, people are absolutely furious and have sworn never to suport BioWare/EA again, even IF they release the proper ending as DLC (Especially if it's a paid DLC).

    -

    IMO, to have this future DLC released ASAP, would only help mend the burned bridges between themselves and their fans... BUT... for it to be any success (and ensure that they do keep their fans) it HAS to not only be worthy of not just their fans, but also of the characters and the universe BioWare created, as well as answer any left over questions. The Mass Effect trilogy, is a masterpiece in it's own right, and it deserves a proper, true ending.

    RIP Raychel, 29/06/2012. Beloved sister and friend (Forum poster: Ghost Rider 2099). Your light was extinguished far too early... Rest now, for one day we shall meet again.

  • Level: 4
    AmbLevel0
  • First I'll say.. I like this interpretation and it does make some sense.

    If Bioware only gave us half the ending right now.. I'm fine with that. If that's the case though, this whole fiasco could have been avoided by just putting one line in there to let us know that more is coming. Maybe have Ashley or whoever your love interest is calling Shepard as it fades out, even a cheesy '... to be continued,' anything!

    If that's not the full end, then cool.. I take all my rage back. But give me SOMETHING so I know.

  • Level: 4
  • If this is actually the explanation behind the events at ME3, it means that they've intentionally cut the game short so they can sell the 'full ending' to us later in DLC. Right now I obviously don't mind this, considering I'd pay $$$ just to be rid of the endings we have now.  But it is a dirty business move.

    .

    The ending shots with the Normandy and the old man/son do seem like.. pieces of a puzzle.. Everyone might be so confused and thrown off track because we don't have the complete picture yet. But this all may be wishful thinking in the end... But for now, it lets me re-play Mass Effect and just pretend this is what's happening. :P

    What noise will you make when you hit the ground? You think you'll hear it before you die?

  • Level: 5
  • I am not eally upset with the ending I got. I am upset for a different reason.

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    At the end of Dragon Age: Origins, it gave us slides of what our choices did. I knew everything that had happened after I finished the game. This would have worked so well in ME3. It seemed that you could have rushed through to the end of the game with no side missions and minimal War Assets and had the same ending. Our choices meant nothing.

    -

    I kept the Genophage because I thought that after the Reapers were gone the Krogan would take over again. I thought it was way to dangerous to restore their birth rate. I even had to kill Wrex! But at the end it made no difference. That is why I am upset.

  • Level: 4
  • There was no emotional closure and the whole ending sequence after the blast seemed funky so I'm really holding out hope they have future plans for the real ending. And it better be free.

    ~

    I believe in the theory because it's very similar to all the dreams throughout, and even Shepard isn't immune to indoctrination. There are so many little indicators; for example we always hear TIM's theme song from ME2 when he makes an appearance, but not on the Citadel. Slow motion, infinite ammo, the kid from the dreams trying to tell you not to destroy the reapers but destroy yourself... and all this happens after Harbinger shows up? I dunno. Even if Bioware didn't plan anything I hope they're ripping off ideas from the fans now coz I really want a proper ending to a story I started just over half a decade ago.

  • Level: 4
  • I agree @Mxtt. If this isn't what Bioware intended, I hope they steal the idea and pretend it was theirs from the beginning! After getting hit by Harbringer - the whole walk to the beam and going through the Citadel.. it did have a dream-like quality to it.

    .

    And @implantedwall14, exactly. What I'm mad MOST about is that the ending to ME3 nullifies everything you've accomplished previously. It just doesn't matter anymore, you always get the same ending. I don't understand why Bioware would discourage their own replay value so severely...

    What noise will you make when you hit the ground? You think you'll hear it before you die?

  • Level: 4
    AmbLevel0
  • A someone posted on the BSN, as what was a ending for Mass Effect 3 taken from the leaked script back in November:

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    Not true. An extremely detailed version of the endings was leaked back in Novemeber. Shepard was meant to survive in more than just a few endings, and tech was meant to be kept in Synthesis/Control. There was also a variation of 'epilogue' where Shepard (if alive) would emerge from the Guardian's ruins, to be greated by their LI and Anderson. Shepard and their LI would hug while Anderson would summerise, casualities, technology, outcome, relays, the future, etc.

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    Source: social.bioware.com/.../4

    -

    That's the ending which a lot of people were expecting (and even I have to admit, I'd like to have that ending), yet it was changed to the mess we have now... It's obvious from what the fans have said on numerous forums, that the ending to this trilogy is having repercussions for BioWare, with some are stating that they'll never buy another BioWare game again; cancel subscription to BioWare's MMO, The Old Republic; send mail criticizing BioWare for what they've done to Mass Effect 3 etc. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of some diehard/hardcore fans effecting a protest in front of BioWare's HQ in Vancouver because of this (Let's face it... there would be some people considering doing the latter...); etc.

    RIP Raychel, 29/06/2012. Beloved sister and friend (Forum poster: Ghost Rider 2099). Your light was extinguished far too early... Rest now, for one day we shall meet again.

  • Level: 4
  • So far every leaked, alternative or speculated ending I've read has been better than this end result.

    .

    Another point to make about the indoctrination theory is that it's really the only thing that explains Shepard being alive after the Destroy ending. Obviously if the events were real - the citadel blew up as it is a relay, and it's not possible that Shepard survived the explosion of the citadel, crashed down to earth and is somehow still breathing.

    What noise will you make when you hit the ground? You think you'll hear it before you die?

  • Level: 4
    AmbLevel0
  • Also if you think about it, during the end part on the Citadel, Shepards movements were slow and labored just like they are in the dream sequence. And when Shepard first gets onto the Citadel he comments that he's never seen this part of the Citadel before.. maybe because it's not real? There are quite a few things that support the proposed explination, I just wish that if that's true Bioware would have given us some indication that there is more of it to come. It could have prevented a lot of bad feelings with their customer base.

  • Level: 1
  • This just made my day, thank you. Didn't Bioware also mention to keep your game saves? I really think their hinting at future dlc thats set after the current "endgame." IMO they won't make another mass effect before the new xbox releases, so to me this is really the only option.

  • Level: 4
    Gamerchix_icon
  • If I need to pay for this "proper" ending I'm going to be very annoyed.

    The Femme Fatale.

  • Level: 4
  • If I need to pay for this "proper" ending I'm going to be very annoyed.

    Agreed - but I'll be more annoyed if there's no extension.

    Looking at the widespread outcry in Bioware's fanbase - hopefully they release the DLC free of charge.. but seeing as they're under EA.. very unlikely.

    What noise will you make when you hit the ground? You think you'll hear it before you die?

  • Level: 4
  • This just made my day, thank you. Didn't Bioware also mention to keep your game saves? I really think their hinting at future dlc thats set after the current "endgame." IMO they won't make another mass effect before the new xbox releases, so to me this is really the only option.

    You're welcome. At least it's something to cling onto, right? And good points. We need to be getting some post-game DLC. 

    What noise will you make when you hit the ground? You think you'll hear it before you die?

  • Level: 3
    AmbLevel0
  • Another thing that you could maybe add to this. The fact that Shepard is fighting in armor prior to Harbinger showing up then he supposedly wakes up in his casual wear?

  • Level: 5
    AmbLevel4
  • That's not his casual wear. His armor was sheered off by the laser fired from Harbinger. Awfully convenient it was Harbinger that went down to stop them, if you ask me.

    It's not enough for people to just live. They have to live for something.

  • Level: 4
  • ^ About this, I really expected Harbinger to play a larger role in the game, and even have a "chat" with him/it.

  • Level: 5
    AmbLevel4
  • Possibly because Shepard was in the process trying to be indoctrinated, Harbinger didn't want to waste time chatting and wanted to convert him over. I had a long conversation with a friend about the ending and we came to the conclusion that the whole end sequence was really just inside Shepard's mind after the blast. It makes a lot of sense if you start looking at a lot of the details for it.

    It's not enough for people to just live. They have to live for something.

  • Level: 4
  • Some are saying that the Catalyst is actually Harbinger communicating with Shep. It was odd that it was Harbinger that attacked Shep + team when they were running towards the beam. What's the significance of that? Why Harbinger and not any other reaper? And then it just gets up and flys away after firing a few lasers? I don't think so..

    What noise will you make when you hit the ground? You think you'll hear it before you die?

  • Level: 3
  • @Ruthless I agree completely and I made a very similar thread regarding this theory and add some of my own interpretations as to why this might be a dream that Shepard is having.

  • Level: 5
    AmbLevel4
  • Budgier:

    Some are saying that the Catalyst is actually Harbinger communicating with Shep. It was odd that it was Harbinger that attacked Shep + team when they were running towards the beam. What's the significance of that? Why Harbinger and not any other reaper? And then it just gets up and flys away after firing a few lasers? I don't think so..

    I thought it was odd as well. I have a theory to it, though. The indoctrination is to get Shepard to make the wrong choice at the end. When you wake up, you see no squad mates or anything nearby. One guy on the ground is reaching out to you, not the beam, and dies when you reach him. Harbinger flies off, possibly trying to leave the impression of a false sense of security for Shepard for the husks and marauder to take him. Since you're armed, that part of the indoctrination fails.

    So you then make it to the beam, supposedly. Now, here's where things really start getting weird. You land inside the Citadel, but it's a section you've never seen or been to. The moment you get up, Anderson is suddenly greeting you on the comm and asks if it's you, not if anybody is alive. Also, right before this, you hear faint and fuzzy radio chatter of marines talking about how nobody made it in the beam. How would they know this? Unless, you really haven't got up to head to it and are still laying in the rubble. Those faint voices are just barely there, possibly from reality just barely slipping through.

    Anderson states he came in the beam after you had gone in. Then he states he's a different part than you but has the same look. When you open the door to see the guide towards the room ahead, there's only one way in. You would have seen him go in there. Next, where did the Illusive Man come from? This part seems to be more along the lines of Shepard's conscious fighting and arguing, trying to persuade him into thinking letting the Reapers live is a good idea. You can also see the Illusive Man trying to force the influence by the black strands around the screen. Possibly Harbinger trying to bear down on the indoctrination to cripple your views.

    This part was really neat, to me. Usually, choosing paragon results in trying to talk your way out as peaceful as possible. Here, Shepard doesn't try talking out of it. Instead, it seems more like the renegade option by egging him on. You're constantly harassing him about the Reapers controlling him and telling him if he can control them, then do it. Then it seems like a throw-back to Saren. The Illusive Man, like Saren, was indoctrinated and sees now that it's far too late to turn back. The both take the only way out they can see fit after harassing them: Kill themselves.

    Choosing other options seems to result in shooting the Illusive Man yourself. Much more like a proper sense of things, taking care of the situation on your own. Shortly after, Anderson dies and seems to be another attempt of Harbinger tearing down those mental barriers of Shepard. Weaken Shepard more. Hackett comes up on the comm and tells you that you need to do something to active the Crucible. Shepard then gets transported to another random area in the Citadel.

    You're greeted with a being that says it controls the Reapers. Yet, all Reapers are sentient. This part makes me think that, possibly, Harbinger is trying to make the Reapers look less harmful and more like just pets that can simply be controlled. The don't think or act without guidance. This is what the Illusive Man tried to teach you. The being then states that they cannot choose any of the 3 options laid out before you. That's odd. Very odd, considering they already stated they control the Reapers, yet one option is to control the Reapers as well.

    The being also states that if you choose anything but destroying all synthetic life, you will die. He makes it very clear in tell you, as well. Shepard even second-guesses the proposition of destroying the Reapers with, "Maybe," since it's not clear if you'll die or not. Being absorbed will obviously kill you and make you, as well as everyone else, corruptible via Reaper code now. You saw first hand what happened to the Illusive Man for trying to control the Reapers. Thing is, the new DNA strand of synthetics and organics as one is supposed to look most appealing because this is what the Reapers want.

    Choosing to destroy the Reapers, and possibly all synthetic life (maybe even yourself, seeing as you're part synthetic), seems like the right way to go. After all, you came here for one purpose, not two other ones. Destroying the Reapers seems most appropriate. After Reapers are destroyed and the Citadel and Catalyst are gone, you're shown some rubble. Shepard's body lays motionless before a swift intake of air. I believe that intake of air was Shepard returning to reality after the attempted indoctrination. Destroying the Reapers broke the hold Harbinger had on him and now Shepard's back, alive, laying in the rubble from the blast near the beam.

    There are a lot of other little details, but this is just the basics of it. Don't jump to conclusions, either. After all, this is just a theory and could easily be swept away. As for what happens AFTER waking back up? I don't know, we aren't given that. DLC, possibly. Anyway, enjoy the read and I hope it may help some of you see the ending in a different light.

    It's not enough for people to just live. They have to live for something.

  • Level: 4
  • Good post @Ruthless. You make solid points that justify the indoctrination theory. Actually Shepard in conversation with The Illusive Man minutes before his interaction with the Catalyst, (if you have the Paragon responses) clearly says "You can never control the reapers, they will ALWAYS control YOU!"  yet in the finale options - apparently control is a peaceful solution? The Paragon choice?  It's just...so nonsensical how Bioware did this. Unless this theory stands to be right.

    What noise will you make when you hit the ground? You think you'll hear it before you die?

  • Level: 5
    AmbLevel4
  • Other details include how the 'wrong' choice is really the right one. They're trying to make you believe destroying the Reapers is a bad idea, while being part of them or controlling them is really the worse one. Just because it's blue, doesn't mean it's good. After all, the entire time when you talk to the Illusive Man, Shepard had always said he was wrong in his ways. In the finale, he actually states, "So the Illusive Man was right." Why would Shepard ever say such a thing? Also, the Illusive Man suddenly said he wanted to help humanity in the end, which is also wrong. He never wanted that and he made it clear right off the bat that he only wanted what he wanted. Casualties and deaths were merely statistics, as said by someone in your squad.

    It's not enough for people to just live. They have to live for something.

  • Level: 1
  • In my first play through, I noticed that after I chose the "destroy" option, EDI followed Joker out of the crashed Normandy. She was not destroyed! Bug? Glitch? Thoughts?

  • Level: 5
    AmbLevel4
  • On my destroy option, Joker came out and then Tali, followed by Garrus right after. My squad mates I used most through the game. In synthesis, Joker came out with glowing blue eyes and green glow along his arms, followed by EDI with a blue visor instead of red, then Tali.

    It's not enough for people to just live. They have to live for something.

  • Level: 1
  • Here is a great blog about the ending. It's the same theory mentioned above but in a lot more detail about mayby why Bioware did what they did and why it makes sense. You gotta check it out. It's a long read but completely worth looking into.  

    masseffect.wikia.com/.../Why_Bioware_has_NOT_betrayed_us

  • Level: 1
    Level: 2
  • Nice theory, makes me happy!  I didn't even care about other choices, reapers had to be destroyed!

  • Level: 4
    AmbLevel0
  • If this was all inside Shepards head, then that leaves a lot of options open for DLC including the final showdown with Harbinger, and the dramatic endings people are asking for. Yes, it would be kind of cheap that they released a game that didn't have the full ending.. but if the DLC has enough additional content to validate the cost then I'll accept it. I would really like a 'showdown' with my nemesis and some closure for my characters and party members. This indoctrination/hallucination scenario does open the way for both of those to occur.

  • Level: 3
  • At the last scene after the credits, remember the kid asking for another story of Shepard and the old man says, alright, I have one more.

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  • Level: 4
    AmbLevel0
  • x Ted Manson x:

    At the last scene after the credits, remember the kid asking for another story of Shepard and the old man says, alright, I have one more.

    And then after that, the game returns you to the point before you attacked the Illusive Man leading me to believe that the 'one more' story takes place before the ending, not after. Again, that's just a guess, but since Bioware didn't give us anything definitive, guesses are all we have right now.

  • Level: 4
    AmbLevel0
  • can you start a new game+ after that or no?

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  • Level: 5
  • Were all 3 options available? I only saw the Synthesis ending. Looked to my right and left, expecting to see 3 paths to choose from but in the end it was the only one.

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  • Level: 4
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  • I had 3 paths and after it was all said and done it reloaded..

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  • Level: 3
    Gamerchix_icon
  • Wow, these are amazing theories and make me like the ending! I love when people see past the lines and let's hope this is what BioWare intended all along! I chose to control them thinking that because I'm a good guy that I could just send them away so they will never come back but I guess I was wrong in my thinking.

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  • Level: 3
  • We can only hope that we get an explanation for these endings. If you think about it this might be what BioWare intended all along after they decided to change the ending. They wanted you to think about your choices but in the end what you did is meaningless if you guys are correct and all of this is in his head. Which means that the Reapers are still fighting and Shepard is still taking a nap outside of the of Beam. And then 50,000 years later Shepard wakes up to save the new cylce (This better not happen)

    It's 2 Minutes To Midnight. Do you know where your kids are at?
  • Level: 3
  • Ehhhh idk. The cutscene after the credits doesn't really support this. I chose the Synthesis option, and after the credits the child and old man that were talking def did not look like they were under reaper control.

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  • Level: 6
  • Apophenia. Look it up.

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